Envoy or Mesa?
01-07-2016 | 03:34 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 109
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Go to Envoy. Prior121 and I have historically been two of the biggest Mesa cheerleaders on here for the last three years, and we're both telling you to go to Envoy over Mesa now. That should speak volumes to you.
Someone has to end up stuck at the bottom of our list when we're done with the growth and the economy inevitably cycles back downward. By my estimation, anyone hired between now and the end of the EJet deliveries this summer/early Fall is at risk of being in one of those "last classes."
Mesa is a great place to work--for those of us who benefitted from the express train to lineholder/hours/upgrade. I can't in good conscience tell you to come here now, though, because I personally don't think you're going to hold a line/upgrade nearly as fast as people currently on property did. IMHO there's much less risk and much bigger rewards on offer at Envoy--just my two cents...feel free to disagree!
The facts are that eagle is shrinking. Yea they have the flow, but if you have ever worked there you will know its a bunch of bull sh#$. From the outside it sounds amazing like leprechauns and pots of gold. AA tried to break their promise and kill the flows back when eagle was beagle. Luckily the 824 guys/gals won it back by arbitration. If history repeats itself AA will probably try to kill off the flow to the rest of the group "especially if they are short on pilots." They haven't even really hit the 824 and you expect huge amounts of movement? This industry is all about timing and luck. Your hedging your bets that eagle is finally turning it around and that management has decided to work with the pilots? God forbid the economy tanks.....>>The Chinese economy is tanking at the moment... The first planes to go will be the 50 seaters. Both places have their +/- but they can just as easily be burned at eagle.
We need a new contract so don't come to mesa!
01-07-2016 | 03:55 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 833
Likes: 0
From: Feito no Brasil, CA
Somewhere in this forum someone posted charts by our union with lots of information on fleet types, sizes, staffing and a bunch of other useful information. See if you can find it.
It's every bit as good as any other analysis and based on known information. Always the caveat that things could go differently than planned, but it's the best we've got for now.
It's every bit as good as any other analysis and based on known information. Always the caveat that things could go differently than planned, but it's the best we've got for now.
01-07-2016 | 04:13 PM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
The facts are that eagle is shrinking.
At worst it's what...3 airplanes in 2016. Someone already posted it and you ignored it. It's less than 10, and possible growth.
Yea they have the flow, but if you have ever worked there you will know its a bunch of bull sh#$. From the outside it sounds amazing like leprechauns and pots of gold. AA tried to break their promise and kill the flows back when eagle was beagle. Luckily the 824 guys/gals won it back by arbitration. If history repeats itself AA will probably try to kill off the flow to the rest of the group "especially if they are short on pilots." They haven't even really hit the 824 and you expect huge amounts of movement?
Not sure what you mean. The 824 are flowing now.
This industry is all about timing and luck. Your hedging your bets that eagle is finally turning it around and that management has decided to work with the pilots? God forbid the economy tanks.....>>The Chinese economy is tanking at the moment... The first planes to go will be the 50 seaters. Both places have their +/- but they can just as easily be burned at eagle.
At worst it's what...3 airplanes in 2016. Someone already posted it and you ignored it. It's less than 10, and possible growth.
Yea they have the flow, but if you have ever worked there you will know its a bunch of bull sh#$. From the outside it sounds amazing like leprechauns and pots of gold. AA tried to break their promise and kill the flows back when eagle was beagle. Luckily the 824 guys/gals won it back by arbitration. If history repeats itself AA will probably try to kill off the flow to the rest of the group "especially if they are short on pilots." They haven't even really hit the 824 and you expect huge amounts of movement?
Not sure what you mean. The 824 are flowing now.
This industry is all about timing and luck. Your hedging your bets that eagle is finally turning it around and that management has decided to work with the pilots? God forbid the economy tanks.....>>The Chinese economy is tanking at the moment... The first planes to go will be the 50 seaters. Both places have their +/- but they can just as easily be burned at eagle.
01-07-2016 | 04:24 PM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
01-07-2016 | 04:26 PM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 977
Likes: 0
A lot of people on here were spreading doom and gloom. Then we got 18 more planes. I know you all want fo's to stop showing up for a better contract, but its just assuming until the upgrades actually stop. Judging by the past two years we have had growth and it hasn't stopped. If I wanted to really be based in DFW ... I wouldn't go to a regional that has major shrinkage in DFW and daddy AA outsourcing a lot of their flying.
The facts are that eagle is shrinking. Yea they have the flow, but if you have ever worked there you will know its a bunch of bull sh#$. From the outside it sounds amazing like leprechauns and pots of gold. AA tried to break their promise and kill the flows back when eagle was beagle. Luckily the 824 guys/gals won it back by arbitration. If history repeats itself AA will probably try to kill off the flow to the rest of the group "especially if they are short on pilots." They haven't even really hit the 824 and you expect huge amounts of movement? This industry is all about timing and luck. Your hedging your bets that eagle is finally turning it around and that management has decided to work with the pilots? God forbid the economy tanks.....>>The Chinese economy is tanking at the moment... The first planes to go will be the 50 seaters. Both places have their +/- but they can just as easily be burned at eagle.
We need a new contract so don't come to mesa!
The facts are that eagle is shrinking. Yea they have the flow, but if you have ever worked there you will know its a bunch of bull sh#$. From the outside it sounds amazing like leprechauns and pots of gold. AA tried to break their promise and kill the flows back when eagle was beagle. Luckily the 824 guys/gals won it back by arbitration. If history repeats itself AA will probably try to kill off the flow to the rest of the group "especially if they are short on pilots." They haven't even really hit the 824 and you expect huge amounts of movement? This industry is all about timing and luck. Your hedging your bets that eagle is finally turning it around and that management has decided to work with the pilots? God forbid the economy tanks.....>>The Chinese economy is tanking at the moment... The first planes to go will be the 50 seaters. Both places have their +/- but they can just as easily be burned at eagle.
We need a new contract so don't come to mesa!
01-07-2016 | 05:05 PM
#97
Thread Starter
Line Holder
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Somewhere in this forum someone posted charts by our union with lots of information on fleet types, sizes, staffing and a bunch of other useful information. See if you can find it.
It's every bit as good as any other analysis and based on known information. Always the caveat that things could go differently than planned, but it's the best we've got for now.
It's every bit as good as any other analysis and based on known information. Always the caveat that things could go differently than planned, but it's the best we've got for now.
01-07-2016 | 05:13 PM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
Likes: 0
300+ planned to flow to AA in 2016 from Envoy. This January, 30 pilots just got a class.. Supposed to continue all year at 30/month flow except for 2 months in the summer to possibly take the last of the unknown number of AA recall deferrals. It was supposed to move up from 20/mo to 30/month and it did, contrary to internet belief.
How is that bull sh#$? Good luck getting to a big 3 "Legacy" off the street from another regional with no flow these days.. not many civilians even getting interviews out of the thousands trying with 5,000 PIC and 8,000+ hours, some at UAL, but very bad odds getting into AA and DAL off the street.. AA becoming virtually impossible with the flow agreements, and military taking the rest of the available slots. So now you are down to 2, one of which (DAL) is also HIGHLY military biased, has rediculous screening requirements and extremely picky about who they want and also have hiring slots accounted for via Endeavor pilots.. so better hope you perfectly fit that perfect DAL uptight "tier 1" profile.. or you will be down to just fighting for the remaining UAL slots like the rest of the thousands and thousands of regional pilots.
Unless you don't want a big 3 Legacy job, then do whatever..
Last edited by RyanP; 01-07-2016 at 05:33 PM.
01-07-2016 | 05:18 PM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,601
Likes: 0
From: CRJ FO
403 pilots of the 824 have just recently flowed in the last couple years, over 100 more went before that group..
300+ planned to flow to AA for 2016 from Envoy. This January 2016, 30 pilots got a class.. Supposed to continue all year at 30/month except for 2 months in the summer to possibly take the last of the AA recalls.
How is that bull sh#$? Good luck getting to a big 3 "Legacy" off the street from another regional with no flow.. not many civilians even getting interviews out of the thousands trying with 5,000 PIC and 8,000+ hours, some at UAL, but very bad odds getting into AA and DAL.. AA becoming nearly impossible with the flow, and military taking the rest of the slots. So now you are down to 2, one of which (DAL) is highly military biased, has rediculous screening requirements and extremely picky about who they want.. better hope you fit that perfect uptight "tier 1" profile.
300+ planned to flow to AA for 2016 from Envoy. This January 2016, 30 pilots got a class.. Supposed to continue all year at 30/month except for 2 months in the summer to possibly take the last of the AA recalls.
How is that bull sh#$? Good luck getting to a big 3 "Legacy" off the street from another regional with no flow.. not many civilians even getting interviews out of the thousands trying with 5,000 PIC and 8,000+ hours, some at UAL, but very bad odds getting into AA and DAL.. AA becoming nearly impossible with the flow, and military taking the rest of the slots. So now you are down to 2, one of which (DAL) is highly military biased, has rediculous screening requirements and extremely picky about who they want.. better hope you fit that perfect uptight "tier 1" profile.
01-07-2016 | 05:47 PM
#100
Banned
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
More like, the facts are: 403 pilots at Envoy have just recently flowed in the last couple years, over 100 more went before that group..
300+ planned to flow to AA in 2016 from Envoy. This January, 30 pilots just got a class.. Supposed to continue all year at 30/month flow except for 2 months in the summer to possibly take the last of the unknown number of AA recall deferrals. It was supposed to move up from 20/mo to 30/month and it did, contrary to internet belief.
How is that bull sh#$? Good luck getting to a big 3 "Legacy" off the street from another regional with no flow these days.. not many civilians even getting interviews out of the thousands trying with 5,000 PIC and 8,000+ hours, some at UAL, but very bad odds getting into AA and DAL off the street.. AA becoming virtually impossible with the flow agreements, and military taking the rest of the available slots. So now you are down to 2, one of which (DAL) is also HIGHLY military biased, has rediculous screening requirements and extremely picky about who they want and also have hiring slots accounted for via Endeavor pilots.. so better hope you perfectly fit that perfect DAL uptight "tier 1" profile.. or you will be down to just fighting for the remaining UAL slots like the rest of the thousands and thousands of regional pilots AND EVERY PILOT AT JETBLUE, SPIRIT,FRONTIER,VIRGIN, ATLAS, SUN COUNTRY, SOUTHWEST, AND ALLEGIANT,
Unless you don't want a big 3 Legacy job, then do whatever..
300+ planned to flow to AA in 2016 from Envoy. This January, 30 pilots just got a class.. Supposed to continue all year at 30/month flow except for 2 months in the summer to possibly take the last of the unknown number of AA recall deferrals. It was supposed to move up from 20/mo to 30/month and it did, contrary to internet belief.
How is that bull sh#$? Good luck getting to a big 3 "Legacy" off the street from another regional with no flow these days.. not many civilians even getting interviews out of the thousands trying with 5,000 PIC and 8,000+ hours, some at UAL, but very bad odds getting into AA and DAL off the street.. AA becoming virtually impossible with the flow agreements, and military taking the rest of the available slots. So now you are down to 2, one of which (DAL) is also HIGHLY military biased, has rediculous screening requirements and extremely picky about who they want and also have hiring slots accounted for via Endeavor pilots.. so better hope you perfectly fit that perfect DAL uptight "tier 1" profile.. or you will be down to just fighting for the remaining UAL slots like the rest of the thousands and thousands of regional pilots AND EVERY PILOT AT JETBLUE, SPIRIT,FRONTIER,VIRGIN, ATLAS, SUN COUNTRY, SOUTHWEST, AND ALLEGIANT,
Unless you don't want a big 3 Legacy job, then do whatever..
Going to any non-wholly owned Regional these days will get you all the way to one of the LCCs or Atlas and that is after putting in an average of 5 to 7 years at your Regional of choice.
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