Envoy or Mesa?
01-06-2016 | 01:16 PM
#51
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Joined: Apr 2014
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Just curious, where are you getting the idea that someone hired at Mesa today will see a fast upgrade? The USS quick upgrade has already sailed off into the sunset for anyone with zero 121 time hired after 2014. And it's going to be a long, cold, and dark night for everyone else stuck here on FO pay. I can run some quick cocktail napkin math and show you the numbers so you can see for yourself if you would like me to. I am not trying to sound condescending and negative over this, but rather to give accurate info to a prospective new hire, such as yourself, so that you can make a well informed decision. Don't allow yourself to get duped into a bad decision because of a recruiter taking the used car salesman approach.
Mesa is not an awful place to work aside from the pay, but there are so many better deals out there for those entering the industry.
Mesa is not an awful place to work aside from the pay, but there are so many better deals out there for those entering the industry.
If you decide on Mesa, be prepared to live on FO pay for at least a few years. The pay and benefits at Mesa are far lagging every other regional and many Mesa FO's that made the decision to go to Mesa when it was a more level playing field between regionals, are now looking at making lateral moves to other regionals. Going to just about any other regional at this point will double your pay. You're going to be stuck in the right seat for a while, so you really have to consider this.
01-06-2016 | 03:39 PM
#52
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Joined: May 2015
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I agree with this. The quick upgrade at Mesa is over.
If you decide on Mesa, be prepared to live on FO pay for at least a few years. The pay and benefits at Mesa are far lagging every other regional and many Mesa FO's that made the decision to go to Mesa when it was a more level playing field between regionals, are now looking at making lateral moves to other regionals. Going to just about any other regional at this point will double your pay. You're going to be stuck in the right seat for a while, so you really have to consider this.
If you decide on Mesa, be prepared to live on FO pay for at least a few years. The pay and benefits at Mesa are far lagging every other regional and many Mesa FO's that made the decision to go to Mesa when it was a more level playing field between regionals, are now looking at making lateral moves to other regionals. Going to just about any other regional at this point will double your pay. You're going to be stuck in the right seat for a while, so you really have to consider this.
They have have no previous 121 experience.
But anyway, if they don't upgrade they gonna have a hard time on low pay.. :-/
01-06-2016 | 03:56 PM
#53
sippin' dat koolaid
Joined: Jun 2013
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From: gear slinger
Your friends are going to be FOs for quite some time unless we get more flying, which is unlikely at this point. Yes there are FOs who started at zero 121 time and upgraded within 18 months, but they were all hired in 2013-2014. The company has stated that they need 90 captain upgrades to staff this round of E175 deliveries. They have already started upgrading those 90 pilots and most of these guys/gals are mid 2014 hires. Keep in mind that Mesa hired steadily, every month, all throughout 2014. There are literally hundreds of FOs before you and your friends trying to get one of those 90 captain slots. Good luck.
01-06-2016 | 04:22 PM
#55
sippin' dat koolaid
Joined: Jun 2013
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From: gear slinger
Yes attrition happens as well, but we aren't exactly bleeding captains. Not sure what your POV is, but from mine, and I currently work here, it will be quite some time before a new hire sees the left seat. Can't speak for the other domiciles, but about 90% of the CAs in PHX are lifers.
01-06-2016 | 04:53 PM
#57
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Joined: Aug 2010
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At envoy we have at least 360 Captain's flowing to AA this year. In addition to them, there are about 50 envoy pilots who have been given job offers (outside of the flow) that will be going to AA this year as well. Based on AA's retirement schedule and projected 2017 hiring, about 360 envoy Captains will be flowing that year as well. This is in addition to the attrition to DAL, UAL, Spirit etc.
Management claims that they 250 upgrades planned for this year is based on hiring only 15 pilots per month. (We have yet to see the actual bid but that is their claim) So far for the last few months we have gotten twice that amount. It stands to reason then, so long as we have new hires replacing them, we should be upgrading new Captains to replace those leaving on a one to one ratio.
Management claims that they 250 upgrades planned for this year is based on hiring only 15 pilots per month. (We have yet to see the actual bid but that is their claim) So far for the last few months we have gotten twice that amount. It stands to reason then, so long as we have new hires replacing them, we should be upgrading new Captains to replace those leaving on a one to one ratio.
01-06-2016 | 05:18 PM
#58
sippin' dat koolaid
Joined: Jun 2013
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From: gear slinger
Plus they all pay better and have better benefits. Mesa isn't even in the same league in that regard. I wouldn't even have Mesa on my radar if I were coming into the industry right now.
01-06-2016 | 06:10 PM
#59
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Joined: Sep 2015
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Why would you recommend to anyone starting 121 today to do so in a prop? Commutair has no jets yet, and Piedmont can't staff the ones that they were supposed to already have.
As for your flow/interview postulation, from what I have read, those are about as trustable as your average politician's promises. Particularly the interview option.
Also, money is not all that important to everyone. Just as there are folks who like to bid reserve, flying 20-50 hours a month, there are people who would prefer to fly more than min guarantee.
As for your flow/interview postulation, from what I have read, those are about as trustable as your average politician's promises. Particularly the interview option.
Also, money is not all that important to everyone. Just as there are folks who like to bid reserve, flying 20-50 hours a month, there are people who would prefer to fly more than min guarantee.
01-06-2016 | 06:34 PM
#60
sippin' dat koolaid
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 982
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From: gear slinger
That right there is the problem. Expect to make quite a few enemies with that attitude in this environment. We have many hard working folks here, and the last thing we want is more naive souls filling JO's new hire classes every month on the fake promise of a quick upgrade. He has zero incentive to offer us a better contract while that kind of tomfoolery goes on. Don't need the money? Fine, stay the hell away from our profession.
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