Envoy Info II
12-09-2016 | 01:39 PM
#72
Line Holder
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
But I wouldn't be surprise a NH to sit no more than 2 months on reserve in a few months.
12-09-2016 | 03:32 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,493
Likes: 297
From: 737 FO
Cr700 and dacuj are the same person. They should have zero credibility because of all their lies. Yet new hires will listen to them, because, well new hires still go to Mesa so I guess we know why they listen to them.
Cr700 and dacuj make many false statements and try to say it's a small minority that complain about the schedule, well you **** sticks come out to the line, that small minority is the the entire flying group. The reason January will be better every year, is because of reduced schedules, by time April, May, role around, they implode again and begin the, they'll be fixed in January speeches again.
To all new hires stop believing these two, yes we have some good things here, but Qol is better at every other regional. This company has no problem telling you life will suck here, but when you get to AA you'll be happy you did it. No you won't, Delta and united pilots have it much better, so after a year at AA you'll be mad again.
In the last two days dacuj has said 41 in class, really was only 28. Said upgrades were 4 years, nope, I said 6, I stand corrected, it's at 5 years and 10 months!! So yes it's 6. They say whatever they can to et you here. Think about it, you are coming to a company where the first yr. you work here is the most you'll make until you upgrade, meaning payouts, after yr 1. Those two will say you can make more, well not really we have 11 days off, do you want to work on your min days off, and if you get a line with 14 days off its at 72 credit hrs, so all that open time you pick up will bring you only to a normal line, now with 10days off. Why do we have pay scales capped at 4 and 12 if they're so confident in flow? How low does flow go after the 824?
Cr700 and dacuj make many false statements and try to say it's a small minority that complain about the schedule, well you **** sticks come out to the line, that small minority is the the entire flying group. The reason January will be better every year, is because of reduced schedules, by time April, May, role around, they implode again and begin the, they'll be fixed in January speeches again.
To all new hires stop believing these two, yes we have some good things here, but Qol is better at every other regional. This company has no problem telling you life will suck here, but when you get to AA you'll be happy you did it. No you won't, Delta and united pilots have it much better, so after a year at AA you'll be mad again.
In the last two days dacuj has said 41 in class, really was only 28. Said upgrades were 4 years, nope, I said 6, I stand corrected, it's at 5 years and 10 months!! So yes it's 6. They say whatever they can to et you here. Think about it, you are coming to a company where the first yr. you work here is the most you'll make until you upgrade, meaning payouts, after yr 1. Those two will say you can make more, well not really we have 11 days off, do you want to work on your min days off, and if you get a line with 14 days off its at 72 credit hrs, so all that open time you pick up will bring you only to a normal line, now with 10days off. Why do we have pay scales capped at 4 and 12 if they're so confident in flow? How low does flow go after the 824?
12-09-2016 | 03:45 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
From: A320 FO
Something that most of you guys don't consider in your calculations is that the number of flow/month, after the protected pilot group have flowed, depends on the size of the company at the time. So basically if we grow, we'll send more pilots/month at AA.
Now what you are saying is true, those who will flow in 5 years, are already working for the company. But even if you flow after 8 years I think it is still a good deal.. In case you don't get hired somewhere else before that time. And things will probably change by then, if they can't get pilots, it will get better.
For those who are considering Envoy, take your ticket now, we have a lot of hiring and that's gonna create a lot of movement. You'll get a line/base you want/good line/good schedule very quickly. Nothing compared to those who are currently with the company. It's a pretty good time to join Envoy.
Though, avoid commuting for Envoy. I have to admit that commuting for this company is not worth it (unless if it's for a short period of time). The bad reserve rules, bad schedules as a junior guy and the junior mans (You'll start at a base where staffing is not great and you'll get JM often during transition as a bottom-of-the-list-guy) will make your life pretty miserable at the beginning if you have to commute.
The trend that I've seen since I got hired 1 year ago, is an overall improvement of the company. Still have a lot of work to do to say it's a great company, but I think in the long run it's worth it.
And to respond to the guy who said "I know a captain who's gonna quit after 10 years to go to Spirit". I haven't met one guy who wants to do that. So it's probably an exception in the company and definitely not the rule. Most of these guys are waiting for the flow and at the same time are applying to United/Delta/Southwest/Alaska(For those north-westereners). Even if life sucks for a lot of them, they know it's definitely worth it after all these years, to wait for AA at least.
Good luck with your decision
Now what you are saying is true, those who will flow in 5 years, are already working for the company. But even if you flow after 8 years I think it is still a good deal.. In case you don't get hired somewhere else before that time. And things will probably change by then, if they can't get pilots, it will get better.
For those who are considering Envoy, take your ticket now, we have a lot of hiring and that's gonna create a lot of movement. You'll get a line/base you want/good line/good schedule very quickly. Nothing compared to those who are currently with the company. It's a pretty good time to join Envoy.
Though, avoid commuting for Envoy. I have to admit that commuting for this company is not worth it (unless if it's for a short period of time). The bad reserve rules, bad schedules as a junior guy and the junior mans (You'll start at a base where staffing is not great and you'll get JM often during transition as a bottom-of-the-list-guy) will make your life pretty miserable at the beginning if you have to commute.
The trend that I've seen since I got hired 1 year ago, is an overall improvement of the company. Still have a lot of work to do to say it's a great company, but I think in the long run it's worth it.
And to respond to the guy who said "I know a captain who's gonna quit after 10 years to go to Spirit". I haven't met one guy who wants to do that. So it's probably an exception in the company and definitely not the rule. Most of these guys are waiting for the flow and at the same time are applying to United/Delta/Southwest/Alaska(For those north-westereners). Even if life sucks for a lot of them, they know it's definitely worth it after all these years, to wait for AA at least.
Good luck with your decision
I'm waiting to see what they do with the flow AFTER 824. If they touch it or withhold at all, I'm updating my apps. Not holding out for the carrot like you speculate.
12-09-2016 | 04:45 PM
#76
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Cr700 and dacuj are the same person. They should have zero credibility because of all their lies. Yet new hires will listen to them, because, well new hires still go to Mesa so I guess we know why they listen to them.
Cr700 and dacuj make many false statements and try to say it's a small minority that complain about the schedule, well you **** sticks come out to the line, that small minority is the the entire flying group. The reason January will be better every year, is because of reduced schedules, by time April, May, role around, they implode again and begin the, they'll be fixed in January speeches again.
To all new hires stop believing these two, yes we have some good things here, but Qol is better at every other regional. This company has no problem telling you life will suck here, but when you get to AA you'll be happy you did it. No you won't, Delta and united pilots have it much better, so after a year at AA you'll be mad again.
In the last two days dacuj has said 41 in class, really was only 28. Said upgrades were 4 years, nope, I said 6, I stand corrected, it's at 5 years and 10 months!! So yes it's 6. They say whatever they can to et you here. Think about it, you are coming to a company where the first yr. you work here is the most you'll make until you upgrade, meaning payouts, after yr 1. Those two will say you can make more, well not really we have 11 days off, do you want to work on your min days off, and if you get a line with 14 days off its at 72 credit hrs, so all that open time you pick up will bring you only to a normal line, now with 10days off. Why do we have pay scales capped at 4 and 12 if they're so confident in flow? How low does flow go after the 824?
Cr700 and dacuj make many false statements and try to say it's a small minority that complain about the schedule, well you **** sticks come out to the line, that small minority is the the entire flying group. The reason January will be better every year, is because of reduced schedules, by time April, May, role around, they implode again and begin the, they'll be fixed in January speeches again.
To all new hires stop believing these two, yes we have some good things here, but Qol is better at every other regional. This company has no problem telling you life will suck here, but when you get to AA you'll be happy you did it. No you won't, Delta and united pilots have it much better, so after a year at AA you'll be mad again.
In the last two days dacuj has said 41 in class, really was only 28. Said upgrades were 4 years, nope, I said 6, I stand corrected, it's at 5 years and 10 months!! So yes it's 6. They say whatever they can to et you here. Think about it, you are coming to a company where the first yr. you work here is the most you'll make until you upgrade, meaning payouts, after yr 1. Those two will say you can make more, well not really we have 11 days off, do you want to work on your min days off, and if you get a line with 14 days off its at 72 credit hrs, so all that open time you pick up will bring you only to a normal line, now with 10days off. Why do we have pay scales capped at 4 and 12 if they're so confident in flow? How low does flow go after the 824?
12-09-2016 | 05:49 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 854
Likes: 0
It depends somewhat on the schedules. There are a lot of people in every base and seat who bid reserve even though they could hold a line, because the lines are so bad. This skews reserve time, so a junior pilot could a line pretty quickly in some cases, but as soon as they can they realize that the lines are worse than reserve and stay on reserve. In December a 1 month FO held a line because of that.
12-09-2016 | 05:54 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 854
Likes: 0
Because you guys literally threatened to liquidate the entire airline just to get us to vote in those pay caps. During "negotiations" we repeatedly asked: if the flow is such a guarantee, and supposedly nobody would be topping those scales anyway, then why is the 12/4 cap so important to the company? Why threaten liquidation over a cap we supposedly would never need? It was a huge question for me (since our trust in management's word = 0), and one that was never answered. I voted no twice partly because of it.
12-09-2016 | 06:45 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
I also have CJO from ENY and SKW. I saw we bring our experience, skills, and positive attitude to Envoy and chance it. Worst case senario, we figure out ENY sucks after a year or two(pay back less or no bonus) and go interview a SKY again. Envoy's upgrade is 6. SKW is 2-2.5. Even if you try Envoy and it doesn't work can you go to SKY, eat crow, and you will still upgrade sooner than if you just simply stay at Envoy. Let's give the guys at Envoy a chance. Let's get to know the people in CS. They prob hate their jobs as much as the pilots right now. Lets see if we can turn this thing around so they don't HAVE to pay a bonus to get people to come to that airline. I liked the people at both places when I interviewed, but I like a challenge, that's why I sit up front. I will prob be called a recruiter until Dec 19th when I show up for class, but my positive attitude is much more contagious than their negative one. Is yours?
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