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Old 12-26-2012 | 09:35 AM
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Merry Christmas to all. Oh yea, any good rumors at xjet?
Old 12-27-2012 | 01:02 PM
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I had forgotten about this thread. Thanks for bumping it up.


Originally Posted by Captain Tony
The CPA you speak of between SkyWest Inc (dba "ExpressJet") and UAL, Inc has already been rewritten. It will be rolled out to coincide with the ratification of the UAL PWA, which will grossly reduce the number of 50 seat airplanes feeding the UAL system.
Where is this new CPA?


Originally Posted by AtlCSIP
That's not what I heard at the ALPA meeting in ATL last week. Yes, I was actually there. According to what I heard while at the meeting, the LASA MEC is trying to negotiate reasonably and fairly for the majority of the pilot group.
I do hear the company is frustrated at the stonewalling.

Originally Posted by DontRelaxScope
Reference Bozo's last post quoting your rep.
Also, even if the ERJ reps did tell you everything they knew its not like St. George is going to tell them "hey play nice or else". They will just do it if you continue to think you can be paid like mainline while being a contract carrier competing against others like Mesa and GoJets. I want the best contract in the regional industry that will allow my company to operate indefinitely, I don't want yours that was driving you guys to bankruptcy.
Our contract was not driving us bankrupt. That was Skywest's doing. They broke it, they bought it.

Originally Posted by ja2c
xjtguy.. PBS is as good as the work rules. That's it. We both have some things better than the others. If we could get all the good, roll with PBS, it would not be a concession for you guys then.

It does not matter what system you use. It's all in the work rules.
I think that the point was that the work rules we would need in order for the LXJT side not to take a concession would be of a magnitude that management would not go for. After all, they are asking to take away vacation low. That alone would be the biggest concession!

Originally Posted by Trip7
Let's be rational here. There is ZERO chance we all move to your line bidding system and there is ZERO chance the ASA pilots go for SmartPref.

The best chance to get this deal done quickly is stick with the ASA PBS system, touch up on the reserve rules, and move on. Having more lines for your junior pilots and less time racing your fellow pilots to the computer is a much better alternative than the hammer
I think its conceivable that you guys can move to smartpref IF there were the right work rules associated with it. Why is that not rational?

As for reserve rules, yes, touch up some of ours and put that in the new contract. But along with other touch ups in other sections of the contract.


Originally Posted by MoarAlpha
You have to admit it wouldn't be very far fetched for a management guy to say this side or that side is losing money and we need to take a pay cut.

As I'm sure you know they report earnings for Inc., not SKYW/LASA/LXJT separately. That may be to their advantage.
This is not true. I've read all the 10qs and they've been doing it for at least the last few.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherPLT
You're missing the point between wanting more and being selfish. I've already stated I'm not for concessions. As for what you guys want, voiced here on this forums only, would be foolish. Contract workers is all we are, a set price determined by the negotiations of our management. Price yourself out of the game and you'll no longer play. It's a simple equation really, which is being undermined by younger, newly established players, ie. GoJetzzz. I'm not here to stay, I'm sure you're not either, why price yourself out before you get the chance to leave. Modest pay raise, a little better work rules, I'm happy to sign and be out the door.
BR said this merger would produce about $70 million a year in savings. We don't need to be the cheapest labor group for this operation to make money.

Any improvement in the LXJT compensation and work rules, may seem like asking to price ourselves out to others. Maybe that's the perception problem?

Originally Posted by squaretail
If we're stuck on PBS, then agree to a transition process timeline that resolves the bidding system or agree to go to a 3-way binding arbitration with the company as the third party on the issue of bidding only.
My understanding is that this was turned down.

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant
Based on PCL/Mesaba/Colgan seniority integration award formula, the senior most XJT pilot would be placed about 380 on the list with relative after that.

Company asked XJT MEC to transfer XJT pilots to ASA side and/or voluntary furloughs...XJT MEC said no to both requests...
Why would that be? We all fly regional jets. There are no turboprops or widebodies.

As for transfers, maybe its because the company had to be reminded of what our contract says? Seems to be a regular occurrence to point out blatant violations to management. But yeah, your MO is always to take it out of context to satisfy your need.

Originally Posted by Captain Tony
That is the most asinine thing I've heard yet.

Your side pushing SmartPref or nothing isn't meeting in the middle! That was your opening position when McK started pushing it a year ago! The facts, truth, whatever you want to call it is that SmartPref is not a viable system for primary bidding. It can barely even handle your secondary bidding! Yet your side refuses to move off this position of "SmartPref or current line bidding". It's being used as a poison pill. That's not compromising anything. And if we ask SKW which side is more reasonable, we all know what the answer is.
I think our pilots, in general, want the line bidding and work rules we currently have. The MEC and management knows this. The MECs compromise will be Smartpref. This is not rocket science here. Now, which side is more reasonable?

Originally Posted by 3stripes
I have done just that. Twice. I was impressed by its capabilities, but so far it hasn't actually worked in a real world scenario. We can't get the system to work with our training schedules. That doesn't bode well for the future. It's an unproven system and as of now it still hasn't been tested with a full bid of 800+ lines plus reserve.
The system will only be require to hand BES. So it won't ever get to 800 lines. But my understanding is that it can be expanded with more servers in order to accommodate whatever size bid and speed of resolution we want.

Originally Posted by Captain Tony
Serious question: Who on your side is telling you we told your side to pound sand? Please name names. You can PM me if you wish. Because we HAVE spent the last year trying to sell Flightline to your side, and it has fallen on deaf ears.
Actually, didn't you say that Mcpickle has been working on smartpref for over a year? My understanding is that there has been no serious consideration of smartpref from your side. They haven't even run a solution using actual trips whereas our side has with flight line.
Old 12-28-2012 | 05:04 AM
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What's the deal with lack of crews? I have been following the delays and cancellations for the past week and we (ASA side) have had to cancel over 50 flights due to no pilot or flight attendant. I haven't seen this in a really long time. Kind of a bad time of the year for that problem.

Anybody have some accurate info on that?
Old 12-28-2012 | 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by afterburn81
What's the deal with lack of crews? I have been following the delays and cancellations for the past week and we (ASA side) have had to cancel over 50 flights due to no pilot or flight attendant. I haven't seen this in a really long time. Kind of a bad time of the year for that problem.

Anybody have some accurate info on that?
They were also junior manning. Propably the winter storm that passed through.
Old 12-28-2012 | 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by afterburn81
What's the deal with lack of crews? I have been following the delays and cancellations for the past week and we (ASA side) have had to cancel over 50 flights due to no pilot or flight attendant. I haven't seen this in a really long time. Kind of a bad time of the year for that problem.

Anybody have some accurate info on that?
They had a 3 day trip in the open time yesterday in DTW with less than 2 hours left before show time FWIW. May be people weren't so motivated to pick it up and help out after being cheated out of the Christmas dinner for 'lack of staffing'
Old 12-28-2012 | 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ysslah
They had a 3 day trip in the open time yesterday in DTW with less than 2 hours left before show time FWIW. May be people weren't so motivated to pick it up and help out after being cheated out of the Christmas dinner for 'lack of staffing'
They shouldn't be canceling that many flights due to flight crews when caused by weather. Usually the code is going to be related to weather at that point anyways. These are flat out, we don't have anyone to do the flight cancelations. I think it has more to do with the holiday than the weather.

I can imagine that there have been a lot of sick calls. I bet some are legit too. They have been working me to the bone with less time off than normal and EVERYONE around me has been puking or blowing snot everywhere.

It wouldn't surprise me though if people are finally realizing that making the holiday sacrifice for $150 before taxes is pretty lame. They need to start looking into a 200% as a holiday incentive. 150% at 40 an hour for min day is pretty much the middle finger to me.

If you have to work the holiday the company needs to throw a nice incentive in there. Something equivalent to what you are missing. A little food is nice but how many guys have the chance to stop in and eat that stuff. Nothing compares to spending the morning with the little kids but if you can buy them a little extra to compensate for not being there for them, I'd bet they would have a better turn out rate for work.

What other jobs are there that you aren't paid some form of premium for working the holiday? I mean that as a serious question. I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Old 12-28-2012 | 05:40 AM
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As of 0930 they have cancelled 33 flights due to lack of crew. Hmmm........
Old 12-28-2012 | 06:10 AM
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Not all those 33 are due to a lack of pilots...I know you said crew...but unfortunately some people don't remember the lack of FA staffing at this wonderous airline.
Old 12-28-2012 | 06:22 AM
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Most of it is likely due to lack of FAs. As ATL continues to be the Incredible Shrinking Base many FAs who have been off for XMAS for years find themselves not only working XMAS but on reserve.

Most said to heck with that and called in sick.
Old 12-28-2012 | 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ysslah
They had a 3 day trip in the open time yesterday in DTW with less than 2 hours left before show time FWIW. May be people weren't so motivated to pick it up and help out after being cheated out of the Christmas dinner for 'lack of staffing'
And it wasnt even up at 150%. If they are that desperate, show me the money! Nothing under 200%.
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