What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
10-17-2014 | 08:47 AM
#7831
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
We can not have any JCBA which includes either side getting something different from the other side. That will do nothing but continue to cultivate an "us vs. them" mentality on both sides, ultimately destroying any bargaining capability we collectively might have in the future. Like it or not, a JCBA is better for most of the 4200ish pilots that currently make up ExpressJet.
Maybe, maybe not. But the fact is that each group requires different things in order to ratify. I would prefer that all of us get the B fund and everything else we have and everyone gets all the better things you have. That still brings us to PBS, which is why the PBS process agreement was a good idea. It let the crj side keep flight line for the duration of the JCBA.
10-17-2014 | 08:55 AM
#7832
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
You can't have both SmaftPref and Flightline on property since the work rules don't work the same with both. Realistically, for unity, it has to be the same, which means one or the other.
I agree about the DC plan, but nobody has it anymore, so is it worth fighting for, and potentially going to arbitration over, especially if we get some improvements elsewhere. I would love to get a DC plan, but I don't think it will happen, so at what point do we negotiate something in exchange? Maybe even a buy out for those in it.
I can't speak on the pay disparity because I don't know the specifics of the ERJ side. I don't think any regular pilot on either side should take a pay cut, but that's a broad brush approach to a complicated topic.
I agree about the DC plan, but nobody has it anymore, so is it worth fighting for, and potentially going to arbitration over, especially if we get some improvements elsewhere. I would love to get a DC plan, but I don't think it will happen, so at what point do we negotiate something in exchange? Maybe even a buy out for those in it.
I can't speak on the pay disparity because I don't know the specifics of the ERJ side. I don't think any regular pilot on either side should take a pay cut, but that's a broad brush approach to a complicated topic.
Wait, unless I'm wrong, air Wisconsin, PDT, Horizon, and LXJT have it. Who told you otherwise? Did they have an agenda?
As for pay cuts, it's not just rates. They wanted to decrease our per diem, decrease sick accrual, decrease 401 matching, get rid of our OJI bank, decimate our LTD, increase our cost sharing portion of health benefits. All this while the ASA side didn't take a hit on those things or were brought up. Not to mention some scheduling work rules like losing pay to be released from a DH, check in, assignment windows, ACARS notifications, no dr notes for sick calls, etc, all things that the erj side would take a hit in QOL but the CRJ side didn't. So don't tell us we can't have different contract language for two sides because lack of unity! This HUGE concession from one side will breed lack of unity. So instead of preaching lack of unity. All of us should be demanding that no one takes concessions, that's how you create unity!
10-17-2014 | 08:55 AM
#7833
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
Maybe, maybe not. But the fact is that each group requires different things in order to ratify. I would prefer that all of us get the B fund and everything else we have and everyone gets all the better things you have. That still brings us to PBS, which is why the PBS process agreement was a good idea. It let the crj side keep flight line for the duration of the JCBA.
10-17-2014 | 08:59 AM
#7834
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
Here is the problem....Any retirement/insurance items in the TA will get extended to all employees at SkyWest Inc. That is a huge price tag, and Inc. is unwilling to give that. PBS issues only extend to XJT crewmembers.
I agree that a TA can't pass right now that cuts your retirement and insurance. That's why I believe Inc. is just going to draw down your side until most of the votes are on the ASA side.
The new Inc. management, doesn't really care if we ever merge at this point. They say the synergy isn't really there. The ASA side will likely bid on some of the 145 flying. Eventually the LXJT will be much smaller.
I agree that a TA can't pass right now that cuts your retirement and insurance. That's why I believe Inc. is just going to draw down your side until most of the votes are on the ASA side.
The new Inc. management, doesn't really care if we ever merge at this point. They say the synergy isn't really there. The ASA side will likely bid on some of the 145 flying. Eventually the LXJT will be much smaller.
This is not true. The only thing the Skywest pilots have a me too clause is for 401k matching, health insurance, and scope.
As for LXJT being gone, not news to me. Anyone who thinks otherwise is not paying attention. I wouldn't be surprised if the 145s end up at the cheaper pilot group.
10-17-2014 | 09:01 AM
#7835
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
Wait, unless I'm wrong, air Wisconsin, PDT, Horizon, and LXJT have it. Who told you otherwise? Did they have an agenda?
As for pay cuts, it's not just rates. They wanted to decrease our per diem, decrease sick accrual, decrease 401 matching, get rid of our OJI bank, decimate our LTD, increase our cost sharing portion of health benefits. All this while the ASA side didn't take a hit on those things or were brought up. Not to mention some scheduling work rules like losing pay to be released from a DH, check in, assignment windows, ACARS notifications, no dr notes for sick calls, etc, all things that the erj side would take a hit in QOL but the CRJ side didn't. So don't tell us we can't have different contract language for two sides because lack of unity! This HUGE concession from one side will breed lack of unity. So instead of preaching lack of unity. All of us should be demanding that no one takes concessions, that's how you create unity!
As for pay cuts, it's not just rates. They wanted to decrease our per diem, decrease sick accrual, decrease 401 matching, get rid of our OJI bank, decimate our LTD, increase our cost sharing portion of health benefits. All this while the ASA side didn't take a hit on those things or were brought up. Not to mention some scheduling work rules like losing pay to be released from a DH, check in, assignment windows, ACARS notifications, no dr notes for sick calls, etc, all things that the erj side would take a hit in QOL but the CRJ side didn't. So don't tell us we can't have different contract language for two sides because lack of unity! This HUGE concession from one side will breed lack of unity. So instead of preaching lack of unity. All of us should be demanding that no one takes concessions, that's how you create unity!
10-17-2014 | 09:06 AM
#7836
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
And speaking of smartpref, ERJ side keeps saying that the work rules will make it work. What work rules ? Lay them on us. You guys keep saying that but don't say what those rules would be. Anyway, why do you have to have all these work rules just to make it work anyway instead of just having a better system ? That doesn't make sense
10-17-2014 | 09:18 AM
#7837
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
We were brought up ? Ha that's the funniest thing I ever heard! That TA was a joke. It was ****ty for both of us. That's why we all voted it down. No one should should take concessions. Speaking of that, smartpref is a concession for us. So how can you speak of not taking concessions when you want us to take one in the form of smartpref ?
True, that's not what I meant. I know you guys were losing things as well. My point being that it was overwhelmingly on the erj side. Just look at that list I wrote out. And that's not all inclusive. For the most part, we were brought down to your contract. As for smartpref, the TA included the PBS process agreement which meant you kept it in the JCBA. So there was no concession there for you guys as far as which system is to be used. Of course you shouldn't take the hit in rigs and vacation low either.
And speaking of smartpref, ERJ side keeps saying that the work rules will make it work. What work rules ? Lay them on us. You guys keep saying that but don't say what those rules would be. Anyway, why do you have to have all these work rules just to make it work anyway instead of just having a better system ? That doesn't make sense
They are currently using our existing scheduling work rules to build relief lines with smartpref. The scheduling committee is learning what other work rules are needed in order to at least keep the same QOL when it's used for all pilots. They are currently being negotiated.
10-17-2014 | 11:49 AM
#7838
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,832
Likes: 5
From: 737 Left
Wait, unless I'm wrong, air Wisconsin, PDT, Horizon, and LXJT have it. Who told you otherwise? Did they have an agenda?
As for pay cuts, it's not just rates. They wanted to decrease our per diem, decrease sick accrual, decrease 401 matching, get rid of our OJI bank, decimate our LTD, increase our cost sharing portion of health benefits. All this while the ASA side didn't take a hit on those things or were brought up. Not to mention some scheduling work rules like losing pay to be released from a DH, check in, assignment windows, ACARS notifications, no dr notes for sick calls, etc, all things that the erj side would take a hit in QOL but the CRJ side didn't. So don't tell us we can't have different contract language for two sides because lack of unity! This HUGE concession from one side will breed lack of unity. So instead of preaching lack of unity. All of us should be demanding that no one takes concessions, that's how you create unity!
As for pay cuts, it's not just rates. They wanted to decrease our per diem, decrease sick accrual, decrease 401 matching, get rid of our OJI bank, decimate our LTD, increase our cost sharing portion of health benefits. All this while the ASA side didn't take a hit on those things or were brought up. Not to mention some scheduling work rules like losing pay to be released from a DH, check in, assignment windows, ACARS notifications, no dr notes for sick calls, etc, all things that the erj side would take a hit in QOL but the CRJ side didn't. So don't tell us we can't have different contract language for two sides because lack of unity! This HUGE concession from one side will breed lack of unity. So instead of preaching lack of unity. All of us should be demanding that no one takes concessions, that's how you create unity!
My opinion is that your approach, based on your last paragraph, breeds dissension and ultimately disaster. You haven't provided a potential solution. You've just complained about a number of things we all didn't like about the last TA. Negotiations mean give and take. There are items we will have to concede in an effort to make overall pay and quality of life better for everyone. Unfortunately, that is reality.
10-17-2014 | 01:46 PM
#7839
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
Well, I just spoke with an Air Whiskey captain, and they don't have a DC plan. I'm not going to waste time verifying any more information from you since, unfortunately, your credibility just took a nose dive.
My opinion is that your approach, based on your last paragraph, breeds dissension and ultimately disaster. You haven't provided a potential solution. You've just complained about a number of things we all didn't like about the last TA. Negotiations mean give and take. There are items we will have to concede in an effort to make overall pay and quality of life better for everyone. Unfortunately, that is reality.
My opinion is that your approach, based on your last paragraph, breeds dissension and ultimately disaster. You haven't provided a potential solution. You've just complained about a number of things we all didn't like about the last TA. Negotiations mean give and take. There are items we will have to concede in an effort to make overall pay and quality of life better for everyone. Unfortunately, that is reality.
It's ok, many pilots at LXJT don't know we have a B fund either (a quick check of APC will confirm it). Unless they gave theirs up recently, they still have it. And I know PDT has theirs. And I think Horizon has a B fund also. But even if they didn't, why is it ok with you that another pilot group take a concession by giving that up? You should be demanding all our good things like we demand your good things. Or are you ok with me telling you that you need to give away vacation low and your rigs?
The fact of the matter is that neither side wants a concession. That's a good thing! We knew that voting no, and not agreeing to concessions, meant a static fleet plan (at least on the erj side). So with those facts on the table, what's wrong with neither said taking a concession, whether that's through a new TA or status quo? That's my solution and from the sounds of some of your guys, management is happy with that. Oh well, I hope everyone has a plan b, at least the ERJ guys.
So go check your credibility now.
10-17-2014 | 04:16 PM
#7840
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
They are currently using our existing scheduling work rules to build relief lines with smartpref. The scheduling committee is learning what other work rules are needed in order to at least keep the same QOL when it's used for all pilots. They are currently being negotiated.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
