Nope not the best car. But they aren't going to let us buy a terrible car.

Listen you and Tony know you are wanting what's best for the pilots. I get that. I respect the drive. But we are in a union. This is the playing field. It's the arrangement. We all signed up for collective bargaining. You guys are ready for scorched Earth and we haven't even seen anything that warrants it.

Do you honestly think FedEx will "destroy" our retirement? FedEx will make their gains with small QOL degradation and scheduling flexibility. They still need our retirement as a bedrock of our contract to attract talent. I can't believe you don't believe that.

 

But why not the best car? Isn't that what we should be shooting for. I feel like we deserve a Rolls, but the NC/MEC is ok asking for a Toyota. Considering that most other pilot groups have a Yugo, that Toyota may look good, but it still isn't the Rolls that we deserve.

 

Honestly, why would they not? They did it to the rest of the company employees except executive management, just saying.

 

They definitely will if given the chance. We are merely a cost to be managed and they have a duty to make money for the shareholders.

 

Fedex wont buy us a terrible car...lol. Fedex doesnt use the Aplan to attract talent. DAL AA UAL have no Aplan and they are getting talent just fine.

As soon as fedex can trick us into getting rid of Aplan they will. I just never thought ALPA would be in on it.

I will vote for pay cuts before I sign on for any retirement plan that is run, overseen, managed etc by any union....

 

Agree.

The company doesn’t need to trick us - the negotiating committee is a actively trying to do it on purpose with no mandate from the crew force. Survey said “by any means necessary” so “pancakes” it is!!

 

I have a novel idea. Lets pass judgement when we actually have a TA. What a concept. Then if the majority like it we implement it. Thats how a group based union works.

Can someone please point me in the direction of any communication that says the union is looking at giving up our A plan? I will be waiting patiently for the link. I think what has been said time and time again is the union is looking at different A plan formulas to increase the value. Thats not giving up the A plan. Maybe I missed an email when that was stated so please someone send or post the link.

 

But you argue we are too apathetic, so how is this going to work? And recalling reps who don't speak for us IS part of the process, It's in the manual for a reason.

And by definition, if you change to a new variable benefit and sunset the current A plan, you are giving up the current plan. We are asking to increase the FAE to $460K to bring us back in line with the 1999 CBA, not replace the current plan.

How you "improve" the A plan matters. Float all boats at the same time. Never favor a plan that helps some at the expense of others.

 

Check these articles out! They’ve been cooking “pancakes” for SICK AND DYING PENSION PLANS for years.

The weak multi employer plans were happy to get a lifeline from the APP/VBP/SPP because the only alternative was a 401k due to the impending death of their underfunded pensions.

Standby to be the first and only suckers at a record profit bellwether industry leader with a healthy pension plan and the leverage to improve it to voluntarily ask for this subpar non-A plan. Maybe we should also ask to join the Newspaper guild or harbor pilots or sheet metal workers multiemployer plans just to be EXTRA AWESOME and SAFE! Or rather we should relax and wait for the TA with great confidence in our secretive leaders.

#pancakesareforsavingdyingpensions

my favorite quote in the articles - “We view it as a plate of pancakes. Some years you get a bigger one; some years you get a smaller one. But in the end you get a plate of pancakes that you can keep eating for the rest of your life.”

pancake article 1 with dying pensions - https://www.nyguild.org/front-page-d...irement-crisis

pancake article 2 with dying pensions - https://www.pionline.com/ja/node/778186

Don’t say you weren’t warned! DR K

 

OK, you have convinced me, you must be a shill for the union. Either that, or you are in the early stages of Alzheimer's, and you have forgotten or chosen to ignore countless union messages pimping the pancake plan from the past 5 years. Or perhaps you are trying to gaslight the new hires on this board, who may not know the history that is all too clear to those of us that have been here and watched it unfold.

I have read the back and forth messages regarding your status as a member of the seniority list. Frankly, I don't know who to believe. However, for the sake of those of us that will have to live under the next contract, I sincerely hope you are just a troll as others have suggested, and that you do not have a vote. If you do have a vote, you are the very definition of a "low information" voter.

I believe that recently the union has purposely hidden exactly what they are negotiating regarding the retirement plan. I believe if they were forthright and honest with the membership, the entire MEC would have been recalled by now. They are trying to hide the truth until it is too late, and hoping they can "pass the trash" with a 51% vote. Do you really want a contract that passes by 51%? I voted with the 43% last time, and I can only hope the "no" votes win this time, if the pancake plan is in the TA.

Mark me down as a firm "no" vote for any pancake plan. You can also mark me down as a supporter of Tony and Brian. Heed their words, they know of which they speak. And yes, they are certainly among the smartest people on this board.

New hires, listen to the people who are giving logical arguments against the pancake plan. Your future retirement depends on it. When you get to your retirement date, and the stock market is in the crapper, you will be glad you listened.

Tony and Brian, thank you for all you do. You take much more abuse than you deserve, as you deserve none of it.

If "my" negotiating committee is too inept to negotiate lie flat seats, do you really want them starting from scratch on your retirement plan? My answer is a firm no. If pancakes are in the TA, vote the TA down, force the MEC to resign, or recall all of them and start over with someone who can actually write a survey that doesn't hide the truth from the crew force, and actually asks the direct questions, "how would you want us to improve your retirement" and "are you in favor or against the pancake plan"?