Delta contract
12-05-2022 | 10:49 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 32
From: 4A2FU
I'm not going to say whether or not Delta plus a nickel is sufficient or not, only that the package must compensate us appropriately. There are a few items that you mentioned that I think need some discussion.
First, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Delta's 2020 pay rate would be $408 today. I thought that $417 was greater than $408. It's not much above inflation, but it is higher than current inflation. Do I think we deserve more than an inflationary pay increase, yes. Do we base that on our current pay rates or on Delta's 2020 rate?
Yes, hotel lockdown sucks. Did it suck enough for most of the pilots to leave the MD/777 on the last bid? Did those pilots fly DRFT/AVA during 2020-2021 during the peak? Did those pilots extend beyond what was required? Did those pilots show they were willing to fight for more in the COVID MOU's.
If you came to FedEx expecting to never fly a night hub turn, maybe you didn't do a lot of research. How did you think that packages got delivered across the county over night?
Saying that the passenger pilots had it good during COVID while we worked our butts off isn't fair to either group. It's easy to say the grass was greener on the other side. Did the late sorts suck? Yes! Would taking a 50% pay cut suck and not knowing if a furlough was around the corner suck? Yes!
Everyone has their own numbers in mind when it comes to this contract. When we finally get a TA, each of us has to decide whether it meets our expectations or not. That being said, the $417 Delta rate certainly gives the NC more leverage in negotiations than the $361 UPS rate that became industry leading 3 months ago. The $417 rate is 4% higher than the September 2025 UPS rate, but over 2 years earlier.
First, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Delta's 2020 pay rate would be $408 today. I thought that $417 was greater than $408. It's not much above inflation, but it is higher than current inflation. Do I think we deserve more than an inflationary pay increase, yes. Do we base that on our current pay rates or on Delta's 2020 rate?
Yes, hotel lockdown sucks. Did it suck enough for most of the pilots to leave the MD/777 on the last bid? Did those pilots fly DRFT/AVA during 2020-2021 during the peak? Did those pilots extend beyond what was required? Did those pilots show they were willing to fight for more in the COVID MOU's.
If you came to FedEx expecting to never fly a night hub turn, maybe you didn't do a lot of research. How did you think that packages got delivered across the county over night?
Saying that the passenger pilots had it good during COVID while we worked our butts off isn't fair to either group. It's easy to say the grass was greener on the other side. Did the late sorts suck? Yes! Would taking a 50% pay cut suck and not knowing if a furlough was around the corner suck? Yes!
Everyone has their own numbers in mind when it comes to this contract. When we finally get a TA, each of us has to decide whether it meets our expectations or not. That being said, the $417 Delta rate certainly gives the NC more leverage in negotiations than the $361 UPS rate that became industry leading 3 months ago. The $417 rate is 4% higher than the September 2025 UPS rate, but over 2 years earlier.
Stop arguing the company's points against us. Stop arguing that a Delta pilot deserves more than us because they had to endure some "heartache" over potential furloughs/displacement. Either shut up or help us get a new contract that knocks it out of the water like we deserve but your current attitude is not productive.
12-05-2022 | 10:53 AM
#32
Line Holder
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,607
Likes: 4
From: No Hats No Jackets No PAX
True, and that’s what happens when you thin the herd beyond normal retirements with early retirement options en masse beyond the retraining debacle getting folks back out of the house and up to speed. Quite a few at the top are gone and some capitalized on the early out and work at other outfits out of pure boredom. Met a couple myself and they’re doing quite fine and enjoying the far reaching travel.
12-05-2022 | 10:56 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 0
You're such a self defeatist, it's ridiculous. I didn't come here not expecting to not fly night hub turns, but I did come here expecting a top of the industry CBA, not just in pay, retirement, and vacation, but in many of the other sections too (where we currently lag big time) because we fly night hub turns.
Stop arguing the company's points against us. Stop arguing that a Delta pilot deserves more than us because they had to endure some "heartache" over potential furloughs/displacement. Either shut up or help us get a new contract that knocks it out of the water like we deserve but your current attitude is not productive.
Stop arguing the company's points against us. Stop arguing that a Delta pilot deserves more than us because they had to endure some "heartache" over potential furloughs/displacement. Either shut up or help us get a new contract that knocks it out of the water like we deserve but your current attitude is not productive.
Big talk from a pompous little arse. Who said that Delta deserves more than us? Where did I say we didn't deserve an industry leading contract. Typical keyboard millineal warrior.
12-05-2022 | 11:51 AM
#34
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,174
Likes: 1
Delta contract
You didn’t say it, I don’t think, but it seemed to me at least like you insinuated it with your comment about coming here not knowing we do hub turns. Maybe I also misread you?
Anyway, I think almost everyone comes here knowing the warts that freight brings to our schedules. But just like 318 said (I don’t agree with all his sentiments), I also expect industry leading pay, retirement, insurance, vacation, and scope, at the minimum, to make up for those warts.
12-05-2022 | 12:04 PM
#35
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,174
Likes: 1
Delta contract
12-05-2022 | 12:26 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,813
Likes: 0
You didn’t say it, I don’t think, but it seemed to me at least like you insinuated it with your comment about coming here not knowing we do hub turns. Maybe I also misread you?
Anyway, I think almost everyone comes here knowing the warts that freight brings to our schedules. But just like 318 said (I don’t agree with all his sentiments), I also expect industry leading pay, retirement, insurance, vacation, and scope, at the minimum, to make up for those warts.
Anyway, I think almost everyone comes here knowing the warts that freight brings to our schedules. But just like 318 said (I don’t agree with all his sentiments), I also expect industry leading pay, retirement, insurance, vacation, and scope, at the minimum, to make up for those warts.
Yes, you misread me. Look at what I said at the beginning. I stated that I would look at the whole package and not comment on whether Delta plus a nickel was enough or not. I look at claiming that we do night hub turns as a reason that we deserve more than another pilot group the same as a SWA pilot saying that they deserve more pay than a FedEx pilot because they fly 5-7 legs a day. You know the business when you take the job. Kind of like a shrimp boat captain complaining about the fish smell. I do believe that we deserve an industry leading contract and have said so multiple times. I would have elaborated a lot more, but I don't want to put any idea out about what is acceptable to me while we are in expedited negotiations. My reps and PM know what I think. That is enough for now.
I do agree with your second paragraph, but disagree with 318's statement that he came here knowing that we flew at night and that our contract was far behind other airlines in QOL areas. If it was so bad, then he made a bad decision. Or maybe he thinks that FedEx gets lower quality pilots than the legacies and he settled because he couldn't get hired there. Who knows. Are there items I would like to see fixed, sure. We'll see what a TA may or may not have in it. IMO, the Delta pay rates are a positive based on what AA and UAL rejected and what UPS currently approved. According to what I was told by PM, Delta's initial pay rate is close to or higher than AA's final pay rate in the deal they turned down.
Last edited by pinseeker; 12-05-2022 at 12:37 PM.
12-05-2022 | 05:47 PM
#37
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 23
From: Crewmember
It's a circle jerk, and no one will tell you anything truthful. So yeah, "ask your rep", and make them feel important while you waste your time.
"Ask your rep" what an effin joke.
Tony, I am hoping and counting on you being the exception, but you aren't in office yet. Also, the ALPA lawyers will no doubt try to muzzle you.
And the current MEC wonders why they don't have the support of the crew force, seriously?
12-05-2022 | 06:10 PM
#38
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 864
Likes: 50
From: B767
Yeah, "ask your rep". Good luck getting "your" rep to give you a straight answer. Good luck getting them to answer in an email vs. over the phone, so they can't be quoted on it. Good luck getting any specific question answered by your rep about the contract negotiations. Oh, and if you ask the NC, they will either, 1) ignore your email (personal experience) or 2) tell you to ask your rep.
It's a circle jerk, and no one will tell you anything truthful. So yeah, "ask your rep", and make them feel important while you waste your time.
"Ask your rep" what an effin joke.
Tony, I am hoping and counting on you being the exception, but you aren't in office yet. Also, the ALPA lawyers will no doubt try to muzzle you.
And the current MEC wonders why they don't have the support of the crew force, seriously?
It's a circle jerk, and no one will tell you anything truthful. So yeah, "ask your rep", and make them feel important while you waste your time.
"Ask your rep" what an effin joke.
Tony, I am hoping and counting on you being the exception, but you aren't in office yet. Also, the ALPA lawyers will no doubt try to muzzle you.
And the current MEC wonders why they don't have the support of the crew force, seriously?
12-06-2022 | 05:14 AM
#39
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,141
Likes: 195
Additionally, anything less than 100% full retro pay is an iron-clad NO. We gave them a longer than normal contract, leaving no excuse for the delays.
Last edited by Merle Haggard; 12-06-2022 at 05:45 AM.
12-06-2022 | 06:08 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
Yeah, "ask your rep". Good luck getting "your" rep to give you a straight answer. Good luck getting them to answer in an email vs. over the phone, so they can't be quoted on it. Good luck getting any specific question answered by your rep about the contract negotiations. Oh, and if you ask the NC, they will either, 1) ignore your email (personal experience) or 2) tell you to ask your rep.
It's a circle jerk, and no one will tell you anything truthful. So yeah, "ask your rep", and make them feel important while you waste your time.
"Ask your rep" what an effin joke.
Tony, I am hoping and counting on you being the exception, but you aren't in office yet. Also, the ALPA lawyers will no doubt try to muzzle you.
And the current MEC wonders why they don't have the support of the crew force, seriously?
It's a circle jerk, and no one will tell you anything truthful. So yeah, "ask your rep", and make them feel important while you waste your time.
"Ask your rep" what an effin joke.
Tony, I am hoping and counting on you being the exception, but you aren't in office yet. Also, the ALPA lawyers will no doubt try to muzzle you.
And the current MEC wonders why they don't have the support of the crew force, seriously?
I agree there are Headwinds to say the least trying to ask reps questions. "Trust the process" is not an answer, but my rep sure knows how to say that and (whatever) is "old business." The lack of accountability some reps are guilty of will only be muted when they are our of office.
So, if your reps are unwilling to have meaningful conversations and represent our points of view, it may be time for you to start the process to replace them. The process sucks, it is weighted against us, and you will be called names by anonymous keyboard commandos, but, it might just be worth a new contract with the improvements we demand.
Here is the thing, If the current reps are so tone deaf they bring us an unratifiable TA, the replacement process will happen but only with a great loss of time. It is better to have the conversations now.
It is way past the time to hold our reps accountable to US. Not the other way around. The Covid cocoon they have been hiding in must be torn down. NOW.
And yes, trust me, there will be a lot of blowback on you during the process, but is your new CBA worth it!
In the end, few will go back and do an "after action report" about the things they said and how they got it so wrong. The truth hurts, a lot.
So, in the immortal words of Leslie Nielsen, "Good luck, we are all counting on you."
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