it’s more an issue of signing the release means
all the pilots are fit for duty. If you roll out of the sleep room at 3:09 AM and feel like death you have several options. If the CA already signed the release you have less options and have to explain to a manager why you’re suddenly not fit for duty

 

interesting….i didn’t know that you couldn’t become unfit for duty as soon as the release was signed. and explain what to what manager? it’s pretty simple: “I’m fatigued.” You don’t have to explain a single thing beyond that and the release being signed doesn’t have anything to do with your ability to fly. get rest, fill out your fatigue report, and go back to work when your no longer fatigued.


im blown away there is a mindset that there are suddenly “less options” to be unfit with the release signed, like you just gave away all your rights. in the rest of the industry, it doesn’t matter if it’s signed or not, if you’re fatigued, you’re fatigued and they don’t want you flying their airplane fatigued. no questions asked.

 

It’s amazing isn’t it? That’s how brainwashed this pilot group is that most think “welp it’s signed, there’s nothing we can do now but complete the mission”

 

SIgn what? The flight release? At AA the FO ain't signing any paperwork. Show up, do job, go home. Captain does all the paperwork.

Everyone has to acknowledge 'fit for duty'. That's not making a decision on the flight plan. Yes, the FO can refuse to sign 'fit for duty' to not fly just as easy as they can say "I ain't going'.

 

Make sure you negotiate actual industry standard retro so all of us that slung your gear and definitely did not look at the release until we got to the airplane get the pay we are owed. Those of us who have left are giving you the most leverage you’ve had since Pat May signed his dirty ta during coronavirus.

 

ex-Fed, current UA. My FO’s at FedEx never had an any practice loading the box, or even preflighting the overhead. Just do an walk around, wrap the water and sit there. Lame.

UA, up to the CA. But I like to switch every other leg. You fly/you load the box. PM does the walk around.

FO’s seem to like it— and yes, I think they feel more useful. Creates a more cohesive flight deck culture too. IMO.

 

We don't operate under FAR 117. Do you even know what is being signed for under 121 and 117. Under 117, the only thing the FO is signing is that they are fit for duty. Nothing else. It is a requirement under 117 to have each crew member declare that they are fit for duty. We operate under 121 which requires that the captain state that it is safe to operate the flight, which includes that each crew member is fit for duty. So, how do you do this if you haven't even seen the other crew member/s? Of course an FO can call in fatigued after the release is signed. But how would you explain it as a captain if you signed the release and a minute later, the FO calls in fatigued?

Duty doesn't start until show time. If the release isn't ready, my FOM countdown clock doesn't start until it shows up, even if that is after show. If it takes more than an hour after show to push because the release was long or weather or any number of factors, so be it. If the company wants me to look at it sooner, they will pay me and count it as duty.

 

DL is the same. Not up to the CA, but the PF loads the box on each of their legs.

 

If we are giving up in this contract over QOL improvements, except maybe revisions, that's like 20 years into a career for a lot of guys here.

These improvements are hard to distribute fairly over domestic/international, reserve/line/ secondary, commuter/ Memphis mafia, left/right seat, junior/senior, etc.

Which is why I would push for bigger sick bank, no algorithmic doctor's notes, 15 year five week vacation, less punishing fatigue policy.

 

…..wow.

explain what to who?

oh wait, I forgot, toxic management, FedEx, that’s right. You have to constantly worry about your actions and have good reasoning otherwise you will be investigated. got it, not like the rest of the industry where pilots are respected when they call in fatigued and get plenty of rest before returning to work.

pro tip for prospective pilots and those thinking about leaving: run as fast as you can to another airline.