I was going to say…. My hardest days were 135 SPIFR in a Navajo Chieftain, and my pay sucked.

 

You’d think that except this company will not let 75 crews off that jet regardless of what your actual seniority can hold. They are all seat locked and have been for years.

 

That sounds amazing. Where do I sign up for that? Try sitting in a tube for a long time, trying to understand controllers, guessing which arrival you'll get, and laying over for 19-36 hours at a nice hotel but not a resort. Lots of our layovers now are around 20-24 hours with maybe one per trip being a 50 hour layover. Take a look at the 777 bid packs. It's exhausting. I was on the 75 before and it is so much less taxing physically and mentally. One circadian flip per week vs multiple per trip. Oh yeah, the catering is mostly just adequate to edible. If it paid the same I would bid back to domestic.

 

Or even if you have a nice long layover, you get revised. I had a 60+ in PEN turn into an extra duty period recently, which meant we spent two weeks with 24 hour layovers or less. Really sucks when you just want to try and catch up on sleep (for those not familiar, 24 hours are surprisingly hard to get full rest when trying to stay on US time in Asia).

Ever since our trips have been “optimized”, I spend the entire trip trying to be well rested. For the first time at this company, I had to call out fatigued because of it. It certainly won’t be the last either.

 

If this is your conception of the 777 flying then I suggest that you need to reexamine the 777 bid pack so that you can get an accurate understanding of the present state of things. I just perused the 777 May CA bidpack and found exactly two lines that fit the criteria of 96 hours+ layover:

98 hrs SYD - Line 1055
96 hrs SYD - Line 1240

So while I can't say they don't exist, they are quite rare, and many of those good deals don't survive Revision 1. My point is not that all 777 flying is terrible. I'll go so far as to say that I prefer it to 757 flying (I've been on both). There's a reason the 777 goes senior here, but if we wanted to make our pay at FDX based on "who works the hardest", then we'd probably lose to the ramp agents and folks in the sort facility.

It may be meaningless to the crew upfront, but this does not invalidate the point. You claimed that "by every conceivable metric 757 crews work harder than "real" international flyers". I was simply pointing out that there is at least one metric by which 777 crews do far more "work" than domestic crews. The particular metric I mentioned happens to be the precise physical definition of work.

 

I don’t think this fleet versus fleet mentality is productive.

Two things can be true at once.

The 777 flying is premium for the company and the pilots flying those payloads should be paid commensurately.

The 3 and 4 leg night hub turn flying on the 757 is probably the most miserable flying at the company in terms of pay and fatigue.

The difference is that we have a system that addresses and rewards the former while the latter is told to suffer through it and get senior. The pay your dues argument.

Yes. We had guys and gals stuck on the 727 through the great recession and age 65, so we’re not exactly strangers to seat stagnation. But for those stuck on the 757 the last four years, that doesn’t ameliorate the bitterness.

Whether or not it’s worth it in negotiating capital to improve the QOL/pay for that fleet in the next round of negotiations, I don’t know. But I think it’s important that the crew force knows that it’s been a very challenging four years for that group and it would be beneficial for everyone to at least be aware of the challenges they have faced.

I don’t think it’s necessary to redistribute the wealth from the long haul folks to recognize sacrifices of the 757 fleet either.

 

And this will continue for years to come. Wasn’t important enough to keep pass over in 2015. No improvement in this area with TA1, or TA2. Obviously not a big concern for most🤷

 

Can you tell me which lines in the May bid pack have this? I looked and could not find any lines that met what you described.

That supports the argument that you should take the upgrade the first chance you get rather than wait, because there may not be a vacancy available for you later.

 

Rule number on seat bidding. Second rule don’t bid just fir city pairs!

 

Excellent Post. One of the many cleavages in this pilot group is a very corrosive "My brother in Christ, simply be more senior" attitude among some (maybe most) senior pilots. The reality is improving 757 (or better yet) eliminating 757 pay is a rising tide that should lift all boats, versus seen as "burning negotiating capital." I mean, the NC burned negotiating capital on new hires (where there was little or no desire to do so among the pilot group at large.) So why not on work rule improvements for the guys doing the least enjoyable flying in the system?

The only argument I could make is that the combined realities of life as a 757 reserve guy for a long, long time here at Fedex are likely going to deter lots of candidates should hiring ever resume. Fedex new hires will be at one of very few places in 121 aviation were you can enjoy 1980s vintage flight /duty time and Reserve rules, 1980s aircraft, with a choice of one base, with a real chance of being stuck there for an entire career.