NAI and outcomes
02-20-2017, 04:35 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 747 captain
Posts: 1,549
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
NAI will hire pilots w/o problem for the simple reason there are far more pilots than the really good legacies need or will need. It has always been such and will be such despite retirements. Loads of guys with marginal backgrounds or credentials Wong attract major US legacies hiring teams, they will go to fly the shiny new jet that pays something more than they have now. I spent a good potion of my career with some of them, especially EA replacement pilots. This's types will go and be proud of it. I guarantee!
GF
GF
02-20-2017, 05:07 PM
#52
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Position: Airbus left seat
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by jcountry
Tell that to the families of the Helios victims and the Air France 447 victims, etc.
Incompetent pilots killed every one on those planes.
Incompetent pilots killed every one on those planes.
I would caution any US pilot to start playing armchair quarterback and pointing fingers at various accidents in Europe and world wide. We in the US had plenty of pilot error accidents of our own leading to CFIT's, runway excursions etc. resulting in loss of lives. In most cases these crews had a total of over 20000 flight hours on the flight deck. (If you want specifics, it would take me 5 minutes to put together a list and pm you).
Now back to NAI pros and cons (and some bashing is good ;-) ).
Cheers :-)
02-20-2017, 05:18 PM
#53
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by Wingdeagle
jcountry, AF447 was primarily the result of lack of upset recovery training and should be blamed on both Airbus and Air France in first place. The pilots were in the unfortunate situation of not knowing how to identify and deal with a situation they were never really trained for. Ever since AF447 we all have to go through upset recovery training and there is a reason for that.
I would caution any US pilot to start playing armchair quarterback and pointing fingers at various accidents in Europe and world wide. We in the US had plenty of pilot error accidents of our own leading to CFIT's, runway excursions etc. resulting in loss of lives. In most cases these crews had a total of over 20000 flight hours on the flight deck. (If you want specifics, it would take me 5 minutes to put together a list and pm you).
Now back to NAI pros and cons (and some bashing is good ;-) ).
Cheers :-)
I would caution any US pilot to start playing armchair quarterback and pointing fingers at various accidents in Europe and world wide. We in the US had plenty of pilot error accidents of our own leading to CFIT's, runway excursions etc. resulting in loss of lives. In most cases these crews had a total of over 20000 flight hours on the flight deck. (If you want specifics, it would take me 5 minutes to put together a list and pm you).
Now back to NAI pros and cons (and some bashing is good ;-) ).
Cheers :-)
02-20-2017, 05:36 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
I hear ya man, but your position is on the wrong end of the traveling public, which outvotes you. You need to tone down the money umbrage. To paraphrase A Few Good Men: "It's doesn't matter what I believe, it only matters what I can prove". In this case, what you can leverage and negotiate for.
The assertion comes off as disconnected and entitled, in a country of 320 Million people with a household income median of 60K and DECREASING not even as a function of inflation adjustment, but decreasing in gross value. Getting in front of the street and wanking about the loss of 300K income bracket attainment is not gonna get you anywhere. Society will call your bluff and right ricky tick. "Bye Felicia" kind of thing.
I would keep the income motivation canard to myself if I was advocating for US domestic pilot jobs. Use the safety and carnage angle, because if you go for the "income necessary to keep me interested", a Country chock full of poor people will call your bluff every day of the week and twice on Sunday. They buy that from healthcare providers, they'll never see you in the same light. Don't shoot the messenger, and I happen to agree with you that the math doesn't pencil out for 120k top out as a NB CA. That money is not worth it to me either for an onerously-traveling occupation. Sim building work maybe, but not with the kind of round-the-clock TAFB generally associated with airline work.
The assertion comes off as disconnected and entitled, in a country of 320 Million people with a household income median of 60K and DECREASING not even as a function of inflation adjustment, but decreasing in gross value. Getting in front of the street and wanking about the loss of 300K income bracket attainment is not gonna get you anywhere. Society will call your bluff and right ricky tick. "Bye Felicia" kind of thing.
I would keep the income motivation canard to myself if I was advocating for US domestic pilot jobs. Use the safety and carnage angle, because if you go for the "income necessary to keep me interested", a Country chock full of poor people will call your bluff every day of the week and twice on Sunday. They buy that from healthcare providers, they'll never see you in the same light. Don't shoot the messenger, and I happen to agree with you that the math doesn't pencil out for 120k top out as a NB CA. That money is not worth it to me either for an onerously-traveling occupation. Sim building work maybe, but not with the kind of round-the-clock TAFB generally associated with airline work.
Further, since everyone in this country is making less and less money they want things for cheaper and cheaper. This causes uninnovative management teams at corporations to go to the easiest place to save money so they can sell things for cheaper and still maintain their massive profits- labor. Now you have more people that are making less so they want things for cheaper and the cycle continues. Before you know it there will be no body left to buy the products. Looks like we are getting sucked into the vortex. Something is going to have to happen because there is so much wealth being created all over the world yet the middle class is shrinking rapidly.
02-20-2017, 05:46 PM
#56
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Position: Airbus left seat
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by adebord
Go ahead and make a list. My European one will be twice as long. Air France alone has been responsible for 1,591 passenger fatalities, more than any airline in history not named Aeroflot.
Last edited by Wingdeagle; 02-20-2017 at 06:02 PM.
02-20-2017, 06:50 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Left
Posts: 1,807
Why does anyone expect that NAI pilots will be paid anything competitive considering the ultra low-cost model they use? Are Spirit pilots paid as well as Delta pilots? Not by a long shot even though they should be paid a lot better...
So, if NAI uses 737 MAX airplanes out of SWF and PVD and charges $69-159 each way to Ireland and Scotland, what would you EXPECT pilot pay to be?
So, if NAI uses 737 MAX airplanes out of SWF and PVD and charges $69-159 each way to Ireland and Scotland, what would you EXPECT pilot pay to be?
Last edited by David Puddy; 02-20-2017 at 07:14 PM.
02-21-2017, 09:14 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 824
I'm not an economist or a lawyer, but what stops delta/AA/UA from seeing this new PVD-LHR or BDL-Scotland route and eating the cost of flying a 757 on the same route with a similar schedule and cheaper ticket price until NAI disappears? Is that illegal? Price gouging? The majors could easily take the hit for a few months.
02-21-2017, 09:18 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: A320
Posts: 311
Originally Posted by Extenda
I'm not an economist or a lawyer, but what stops delta/AA/UA from seeing this new PVD-LHR or BDL-Scotland route and eating the cost of flying a 757 on the same route with a similar schedule and cheaper ticket price until NAI disappears? Is that illegal? Price gouging? The majors could easily take the hit for a few months.
02-21-2017, 09:24 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,815
Originally Posted by Extenda
I'm not an economist or a lawyer, but what stops delta/AA/UA from seeing this new PVD-LHR or BDL-Scotland route and eating the cost of flying a 757 on the same route with a similar schedule and cheaper ticket price until NAI disappears? Is that illegal? Price gouging? The majors could easily take the hit for a few months.
