Time to create a NAI blacklist?
12-16-2016 | 10:26 PM
#81
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
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From: A320 Cap
This is getting silly now. I guess all those code shares the major U.S. carriers signed off on, with the pilot's endoresement, is ok but NAI is wrong??? Really now? Sorry but that is utter hypocricy and nonsense. You can't, you won't, have it both ways. I am with NEdude here. I always love how jumpseats get used as a tool to punish people. It's why a lot of airlines keep taking it out of the Captains hands.
Stop making empty threats because threats can go both ways. Will you also be threatening customers/passengers that choose to fly on NAI? If they connect to say a DAL flight will you be denying them? NO you won't, you would be fired. The same as if JetBlue denied an Aer Lingus pax. So, you'll use the jumpseat, which you know can't happen anyway, as a tool/threat.
I'm surprised at all this and am dissappointed in my American brothers for such things.
Stop making empty threats because threats can go both ways. Will you also be threatening customers/passengers that choose to fly on NAI? If they connect to say a DAL flight will you be denying them? NO you won't, you would be fired. The same as if JetBlue denied an Aer Lingus pax. So, you'll use the jumpseat, which you know can't happen anyway, as a tool/threat.
I'm surprised at all this and am dissappointed in my American brothers for such things.
12-16-2016 | 10:56 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 0
1995 UAL. I lost $750k in ESOP stock, pension, 60% pay cut with a bump from the left seat all during bankruptcy. Merger with lost seniority. Prior to UAL I worked at 2 regionals. The first was for $9000/yr. Prior to that was flight instructing after paying my own way through flight school. And I had it much better than many at my airline.
Even regionals are paying bonuses for their pilots to come to work there. And NAI wants you to pay a training bond?!!!!!! You've GOT to be kidding me. Go to NAI if you want. But I recommend you go eyes WIDE open. For the first time in a long time, management and unions are on the same page about something: that NAI is a cancer that should be killed at all costs. Don't expect a warm embrace from any airline or its pilots; whatever form that takes. Except maybe JetBlue. So if you go to NAI, you'll want to plan on staying forever and hope that the winds of politics don't shift the other way.
You complain about there not being enough high quality jobs to come back to in the states, yet you are eager to go to work for the very entity that is trying to kill them off.... RIGHT when they are finally starting to come back. You think NAI is going to be the kind of company that eventually offers good pay and benefits?? Puh-lease! TRAINING CONTRACTS??! It's 2016.
Even regionals are paying bonuses for their pilots to come to work there. And NAI wants you to pay a training bond?!!!!!! You've GOT to be kidding me. Go to NAI if you want. But I recommend you go eyes WIDE open. For the first time in a long time, management and unions are on the same page about something: that NAI is a cancer that should be killed at all costs. Don't expect a warm embrace from any airline or its pilots; whatever form that takes. Except maybe JetBlue. So if you go to NAI, you'll want to plan on staying forever and hope that the winds of politics don't shift the other way.
You complain about there not being enough high quality jobs to come back to in the states, yet you are eager to go to work for the very entity that is trying to kill them off.... RIGHT when they are finally starting to come back. You think NAI is going to be the kind of company that eventually offers good pay and benefits?? Puh-lease! TRAINING CONTRACTS??! It's 2016.
12-17-2016 | 04:56 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,236
Likes: 65
From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
1995 UAL. I lost $750k in ESOP stock, pension, 60% pay cut with a bump from the left seat all during bankruptcy. Merger with lost seniority. Prior to UAL I worked at 2 regionals. The first was for $9000/yr. Prior to that was flight instructing after paying my own way through flight school. And I had it much better than many at my airline.
Even regionals are paying bonuses for their pilots to come to work there. And NAI wants you to pay a training bond?!!!!!! You've GOT to be kidding me. Go to NAI if you want. But I recommend you go eyes WIDE open. For the first time in a long time, management and unions are on the same page about something: that NAI is a cancer that should be killed at all costs. Don't expect a warm embrace from any airline or its pilots; whatever form that takes. Except maybe JetBlue. So if you go to NAI, you'll want to plan on staying forever and hope that the winds of politics don't shift the other way.
You complain about there not being enough high quality jobs to come back to in the states, yet you are eager to go to work for the very entity that is trying to kill them off.... RIGHT when they are finally starting to come back. You think NAI is going to be the kind of company that eventually offers good pay and benefits?? Puh-lease! TRAINING CONTRACTS??! It's 2016.
Even regionals are paying bonuses for their pilots to come to work there. And NAI wants you to pay a training bond?!!!!!! You've GOT to be kidding me. Go to NAI if you want. But I recommend you go eyes WIDE open. For the first time in a long time, management and unions are on the same page about something: that NAI is a cancer that should be killed at all costs. Don't expect a warm embrace from any airline or its pilots; whatever form that takes. Except maybe JetBlue. So if you go to NAI, you'll want to plan on staying forever and hope that the winds of politics don't shift the other way.
You complain about there not being enough high quality jobs to come back to in the states, yet you are eager to go to work for the very entity that is trying to kill them off.... RIGHT when they are finally starting to come back. You think NAI is going to be the kind of company that eventually offers good pay and benefits?? Puh-lease! TRAINING CONTRACTS??! It's 2016.
After 9/11, after many saw the hand writing on the wall before their retirement plans were terminated. They took the step to preserve what ever benefits they could form their retirement accounts... sought alternatives to maintain part if not all of their incomes and rolled over their pension distributions and took jobs overseas. Can't blame them for the desire to provide basic needs for their families, can you, Gettinbumped?
Last edited by captjns; 12-17-2016 at 05:07 AM.
12-17-2016 | 05:02 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,681
Likes: 0
12-17-2016 | 07:44 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
Likes: 0
Points all well taken, I think everyone is well aware of the issues with ALPA - it is what it is. You still didn't answer Boeing's questions though, you are good at regurgitating NAI's talking points not so good at answering some of the legitimate concerns being brought up. ALPA isn't the only one fighting this, what is the ECAs position on this?
The ECA is opposed to Norwegian, but what does that prove? Unions do not have the greatest track record when it comes to improving things for pilots. ALPA allowed RJs at regional airlines, in fact DALPA was perhaps the biggest culprit as to why RJs are not mainline aircraft. ALPA national signed off on the rotten Mesa contract of the early 2000s. Personally I favour anything that creates jobs for pilots. The more demand for pilots, the greater the upward pressure on pilot salaries, even if initially the salaries at the start up are not the greatest.
But the bottom line is article 17bis, even if you buy that it has been violated, does not in anyway provide legal justification for denial of an operating certificate. Not according the attorneys for the DOT. Not according to the principle U.S. negotiator of the Open Skies treaty. Not according the the principle E.U. negotiator for the Open Skies treaty. Not according to the European Commission. The very people who wrote and implemented the Open Skies treaty, on both sides of the Atlantic, disagree with the arguments of the unions and passenger airline trade groups (it should be noted that FedEx and Atlas Air have both been supportive of NAI).
What I also fail to understand is why you people have failed to learn from history. Not even a decade ago ALPA joined forces with the airline trade groups, led in large part by Alaska Airlines, in opposition to Virgin America. Today ALPA gladly collects the dues of the Virgin America pilots and Alaska Airlines has just significantly strengthened their position on the west coast by purchasing Virgin America. Had the unions and trade groups been successful in their effort, Alaska would be extremely vulnerable. 30 years ago, had PeoplExpress not existed, would Continental have survived to establish a valuable NYC hub and later merge with United?
12-17-2016 | 09:55 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,527
Likes: 126
Re-read my post, Gettinbumped. Its abundantly clear to the casual observer... if one doesn't want to put up or sign a bond, then they move to the next airline. There were no complaints, no rants, merely observations.
After 9/11, after many saw the hand writing on the wall before their retirement plans were terminated. They took the step to preserve what ever benefits they could form their retirement accounts... sought alternatives to maintain part if not all of their incomes and rolled over their pension distributions and took jobs overseas. Can't blame them for the desire to provide basic needs for their families, can you, Gettinbumped?
After 9/11, after many saw the hand writing on the wall before their retirement plans were terminated. They took the step to preserve what ever benefits they could form their retirement accounts... sought alternatives to maintain part if not all of their incomes and rolled over their pension distributions and took jobs overseas. Can't blame them for the desire to provide basic needs for their families, can you, Gettinbumped?
12-17-2016 | 10:22 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,591
Likes: 357
From: Sitting SC at the Five Towns
What I also fail to understand is why you people have failed to learn from history. Not even a decade ago ALPA joined forces with the airline trade groups, led in large part by Alaska Airlines, in opposition to Virgin America. Today ALPA gladly collects the dues of the Virgin America pilots and Alaska Airlines has just significantly strengthened their position on the west coast by purchasing Virgin America. Had the unions and trade groups been successful in their effort, Alaska would be extremely vulnerable. 30 years ago, had PeoplExpress not existed, would Continental have survived to establish a valuable NYC hub and later merge with United?
The industry would have looked a little different if PE or VA had never come to fruition. But not that much different. Those pilots would have eventually landed jobs at other airlines -- and their absence would have put less downward pressure on pilot wages.
12-17-2016 | 12:12 PM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,236
Likes: 65
From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Baa Baa Baa. Don't get your head stuck in the fence when grazing.
12-17-2016 | 08:43 PM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
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Classic counterfactual fail.
The industry would have looked a little different if PE or VA had never come to fruition. But not that much different. Those pilots would have eventually landed jobs at other airlines -- and their absence would have put less downward pressure on pilot wages.
The industry would have looked a little different if PE or VA had never come to fruition. But not that much different. Those pilots would have eventually landed jobs at other airlines -- and their absence would have put less downward pressure on pilot wages.
So in your world the post 9/11 era was the best time to be a pilot. Highest pay and benefits ever...
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