JMO127

Wouldnt call it substantial. SIC essentially 0. Still the lowest in the industry. Benefitted the higher or long term 5+ year guys it seems. The 2nd week of vacation is nice though.

Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk

CosmoKramer86

Yeah, I don’t get the lack of raise for SICs and that’s absolutely not what our indoc class was told would happen. Coupled with the loss of ATL Bucks, it’s a kick in the head. VJ 350 PICs with several thousand hours in type are getting $10k+ less than our brothers on the white tails. Besides being home based, there’s not a lot of incentive to stick around now.

Peabody17

Correct me if I’m wrong, but SICs got a new pay scale (raise) about a year ago (April 2019?), and Tier 1 SICs got another raise with this MOU. I’m not saying it’s industry leading, but it’s not 0. And the extra week of vacation in year 1 was a nice upgrade.

I concur that the disparity in this MOU between XOAV and XOCR is going to have a lot of CR 350 folks looking around.

chase

Thought I would share this answer to a question I was sent via PM. Hope it provides some further insight into one person's perspective at XOJ

I was wondering what you may have picked up or learned in the first 6 months of being on rotation?
Wow! Quite a bit. I realized my "canned" flying for the airlines was exactly that...very canned. I knew every day would be different but didn't realize how much and how many variables there would be in making the decisions the CA must make.

• Looking ahead to tomorrow's weather and thinking through the impact to the pax, plane, fluids to the point of directing Client services to ask client to drive to a different airport or arrive at a different airport to insure the trip is completed
• thinking ahead about catering issues that occasionally come up,
• the "quirks" in the X that one only learns about on the line (like any plane I guess)
• that LNK (where I have spent a lot of overnights since it is a mx base) has some outstanding eating establishments and GSO doesn't,
• the professionalism of the pilots is superb,
• glad I got to see a lot of the mountain airports VFR in warm wx before having to see them with snow all around them, the X doesn't like cold weather,
• the flexibility to go from a 8/6 schedule to 15/13 by trading around with friends has some real advantages when you need to put a block of time together for an event or vacation,
• 8/6 isn't a bad schedule and while 7/7 would be better that type of schedule doesn't work best for XO and I'm fine with that,
• not sitting FBO alert isn't just an internet rumor, we do it but very very rarely
• two pay raises since I arrived in May '19, new MOU rewards total flight time and time in type,
• 401K increases from current matching of $5K to greater will occur later this year hopefully after discussions with the company...no guarantees obviously
• 3 yr time frame for MOU,
• an annual percentage pay raise TBD based upon retention of XO pilots at the end of the year, 20% of less is the goal, (1-2.5%)
• additional bonus based upon customer service feedback, fuel savings (shared evenly since before the X's got a bigger chunk based upon individual flying) and completing annual training requirements before the grace period and attendance at weekly safety conference calls
• X's will be phased out over the next 5 years, 300/350/Globals will make up the fleet
• Movement from X to 300 is occurring, 2 projected in the next few months, followed by 2 more later in the year and over next few years the transition to the 300 for all X pilots but no projection other than approximately 5 yrs.
• limited number of 300 flying for XO pilots available for Europe this summer (2 months at a time), nice benefits to go along with the flying such as $200 a day on days off for travel, paid travel home between 15 day rotations if desired
• Honeywell is definitely not a Collins FMC, still learning the beast but much better
• love, love the no commuter aspect, home basing is the bomb
• returns on transition days (I work Tues/Tues) have occurred occurred before 10 PM, latest one I was scheduled for was 9:30 PM earliest one was 1030 AM (transition in my home city) and average has been late afternoon, mileage and distance will vary depending on many factors
• schedulers worked with me to get back before too late on several occasions when they could, no guarantee
• can change your transition city for start or ending trip several times, DEN, DAL were 2 examples, (I think guaranteed can occur 3 times a year but you can always ask for an "non-guarantee also..got one of those awarded... which makes spending time with family in other cities much nicer instead of having to hustle home
• Easy peasy for rental car usage and a HUGE culture advantage to take advantage of local areas and get away from hotel
• Per diem is $80 a day, have gone over on a few days and never questioned about it...not cold cash but reimbursed on personal or company credit cards
• Navy, French AF, Russian AF, AF, Army aviators sprinkled around, a wide mix of pilots from varied background
• Upgrade is the real deal, lots of studying, prep, more self study required to get prepared for this IMHO than at mainline (I haven't done it yet, I will wait until later fall due to vacation/schedule changes that would occur if I upgraded earlier but there is no pressure to upgrade..some folks fly here for diversion from normal jobs back home and like the right seat)
• Hotels are consistently better than I got at SWA...80% Marriott/Hilton full service, 20% next tier down and like last week got MGM grand and previously Grand Teton Lodge in JAC
• XO doesn't just talk safety, they really emphasize it from top down and it is a part of the culture...no pressure to go where options are limited...Chief Pilots and their reps are great back up for CAs to call upon for help and support the decisions made...no second guessing once a sound plan is in place ...haven't once thought ****.
• I can honestly say the pax have been very nice and agreeable. No drama, some may not be Mr/Ms Congeniality but far fewer than I expected...met some very interesting and nice folks with good conversations on a variety of topics
• Clients I have flown are mostly returning pax...many site their experiences at other fractionals and site their pleasure with XO over others they have used in terms of Client Services and treatment on the airplane...no XO isn't perfect, a/c break and some clients get on a bad run sometimes but the company makes a concerted effort to make up for those deficiencies with other bennies to show them XO works hard to keep their business
• Globals are on the property and flying but not sure how much, their routes, loads or other details
• 350/Globals pilots on separate contract but hopes are to bring them all under the same work rules in the near future (12-24 months is my guess and only a guess, hopefully sooner)
• All VJ pilots I've met have been very nice; heard no bad blood between groups...all the XO pilots hope the work rules/pay get to be matched sooner rather than later; VJ pilot(s) being added to negotiating RoundTable I hear very soon to get spun up on negotiations/discussions to improve their conditions. XO pilots are doing what they can to help facilitate the improvements, somewhat limited obviously in what we can do but everyone pulling in the same direction is good.
• JetSmarter is making money for XO which we purchased in 2018...one airplane (non-XO) in TEB I witnessed 14 pax, each were paying separately ($5K) as told to me by a JetSmarter/XO rep and obviously the company that owned the airplane was making the bulk of the money but XO/Jetsmarter was getting some percentage of that money, money that wouldn't have been obtained otherwise, since they used the JS app..like Master Charge that gets a % off each sale.
• Transition to FL from CA is a HUGE effort. Patience is the requirement. Talent pool has been much deeper to choose from in FL and all of the FL folks have returned back to FL after spending weeks of getting trained in CA.
• Haven't flown with any jerks...can't say my CAs would say the same though. All have been patient, highly qualified and fun to fly with...learned something from all of them.

Many phone calls are a "training" event because the pilots are speaking to folks who are new with limited exposure to XO operations.

Imperative that pilots and all folks are aware of that and the tone/tenor taken with each other is a chance to remember when we were all just learning how to fly, a patient voice asking questions and understanding if the first action isn't 100% correct....the new team is coming along and will pick things up.

XO/VJ will become 1 and while some have claimed the culture is changing, I would say the "operations" is changing more than the culture and while that can impact culture, it doesn't necessarily have to unless one's attitude starts to change and uses it to explain why something that use to be easy is now hard.

People claimed at SWA the culture changed and on one level it has too, when one goes from 3000 - 9000 pilots, doubles cities to include non-US cities, it has to change to survive.

XO 2.0 as I call it, will prove to be a turning point for XO/VJ.

Loads of experience that has left but a load of new folks who are eager and hunger to learn with a lot of aviation experience on their resumes...we may not get the answer we want as quick as we use too but the CPs are still supporting the team 110%, mx is still making the right call on mx issues and yes IT issues are a problem but are being worked hard.

Still many challenges ahead but from my perspective the future is bright and the flying is still exciting. Its not perfect but I can live with that and fortunately we have some of the most talented folks I've ever met serving the interests of the pilots on the Roundtable doing great things on our behalf with the support of the CP and others above them.

Good luck to those who have applied and awaiting a call for a phone interview or going to an interview. For those considering applying and coming here, attitude and willingness to work hard will seve you well. PM if you have other questions if you don't wish to post on here.

Every family situation is different...mine, no kids at home just original model wife, retired from SWA/mil so my situation is very different which can alter my perspective I realize from a 30 yr, 3000 hr new hire trying to get to the majors.

Apples to apples comparisons but many things above aren't affected by where one is on the career ladder IMHO.

Tattooedaviator

Chase,
Thanks again for taking the time to answer my message. I truly appreciate the feedback and look forward to speaking with you in the future.

Toolman78

[QUOTE=chase;2981530]Thought I would share this answer to a question I was sent via PM. Hope it provides some further insight into one person's perspective at XOJ

Very informative posting, Chase! Thanks for taking the time to do it.

David Puddy

Phenomenal post Chase! Sounds like you are enjoying flying the X too.

Questions for anyone at XOJet: how many XOJet pilots have/will take advantage of the hiring link to SWA? Obviously the MAX issue at SWA has probably stalled the program for a bit. At what point would an XOJet pilot indicate interest in that SWA opportunity? Much interest so far?

MCRN

I recently interviewed at XO and wanted to share my opinion. It’s a bit more dissenting then the experience others are giving but I’ll preamble my post by saying I’m not looking for another “stepping stone” vs. looking for a place to retire from. I’m fortunate to be in a position of being able to be very picky about my next employer and am looking for a good fit in both directions.

The experience, "procedural order of the day" speaking, was the same as all the recent gouges out so nothing new there. I'll just review specifics.



Overall, the worse thing to say about it was I was given the impression that they were looking for non-critical thinking corporate drone types and they had no idea how to go about that exactly. It was like they were all given script from terribly written dialogue they were not used to seeing and hadn’t rehearsed and felt like they had to act it out anyway. I got the distinct impression that's coming in from the Vistajet side and is being systematically interjected into their corporate matrix so to speak. I felt they were coming off a bit too big for their britches, they knew it and didn’t like having to be that way. There were also a lot of unanswered questions regarding the company's future. Fleet plan, merger with Vistajet etc. etc. type questions were literally met with a shoulder shrug and a sarcastic smile which was far from confidence inspiring. The lead pilot running the interview session stated verbatim he was looking to leave. I mean who does that in an interview? That really got my attention.

One positive thing was that I was impressed they were as organized at their FXE Facility as they were considering how recent they had moved. I did, however, feel it spoke volumes that only 10% of their support staff chose to stay with XO Jet and make the move to Florida from California. While a trans-con relocation certainly would cost a company at least half their people, maybe even three quarters, I think only 10 % taking the relocation package, a number which was given by one of the interviewers when asked in the group question time, is quite low and quite telling. I would think a really good company would have had more loyalty then that, at least 25 to 30% would have moved. I have no idea what’s typical there so I may be way off.

I will comment on the cog screen. It was absurdly unnecessary. I felt it was not particularly challenging, just trying, annoying and a waste of time. They claimed the results would accurately predict how well you'd do in their training program. Then they explained that the baseline for the test was accomplished by having all current pilots take it then compare the results to their training performance. The data, of course, is totally unscientific and predicts broad generalizations at best. I do not know how much weight the test results have in a hire/no-hire decision. On that point, my impression was (overall) that the most weighted portion of the day was the HR panel interview. However, I do not know that for certain and am merely speculating based on my experience and impression.

The pilots conducting the pilot panel were nice enough, but the questions asked on a couple of approach plates were categorically unrealistic. They were full of “speculative" scenarios that would have never played out in real-world flying and the lead gent was flat out incorrect on telling me one of my answers was wrong. That's fine by itself because even check airman make mistakes and even if I was incorrect, it’s impossible for all of us to be 100% correct on that sort of thing 100% of the time. I just didn’t care for the demeanor in which he presented it. There was an arrogance to it that just left a bad taste in my mouth. I confirmed his error with multiple sources after I got home. I spoke with colleagues a hell of a lot smarter than me, looked up the regs and checked the AIM just to make sure I didn't need to work on my own level of knowledge and found I was right. I have to wonder if he was trying to goad me into giving a wrong answer after I had already given the correct one just to see if I'd crack under pressure. If that was the case I absolutely loath that mentality. As a former trainer myself such a thing speaks to a philosophy of "negative training" possibly being a pervasive tone in their training department culture. That's a big assumption on my behalf but one that's not without merit. Perhaps a current XO employee can comment to that regard. In any event, asking scenario-based questions is always a good thing, but when you ask them as an interviewer you may wanna make sure your own answer is correct first, unless, as I said, it was an intentional deception to gauge a stress reaction.

I really got the sense that the XO Jet that current pilots rave positive about on social media was dying a steady and slow death and everyone was in denial over it. I felt there was a lot of anxiety among the employees I interacted with about the future with VistaJet now owning 49% of the company. They were trying a little too hard to convince us that they themselves were convinced of the future being a good one. It felt like South Florida a day or two before a major hurricane strike, like there was something ominous and foreboding looming over the horizon. There was no real sincere and palatable enthusiasm, just a lot of waxing optimistic for optimism’s sake. That’s always a common theme when your company nearly gets bought out, however in this case, it was really quite rampant.



I’ve worked for another company nearly half owned by a European entity and the way they like to do things in Europe just doesn’t translate well here in the U.S. Yet they seem oblivious to this fact and wind up struggling against themselves over it. I really feel strongly that the “negative” vibe I got was all VistaJet’s doing. That they have come in with a wrecking ball and want to rebuild what was a good and employee loved operation into a company that puts the needs of their employees so far down the list of priorities it’s barely on the list at all.

For the sake of the pilots currently there or headed to class I hope I'm quite wrong. No doubt XO Jet on the XO Aviation side is presently a good gig for the right person. However, it's not a fit for me and I was turned off substantially by the experience. While I was excited to meet the folks at XO Jet I walked away from my in-person interview feeling less than enthusiastic over the opportunity. If I'm given an offer I'll respectfully decline.

stang

How many yearly flight hours are anticipated on both XOJet and XO Crew Resources? Is the SWA arrangement only for those in the pathway program, or is that a realistic stepping stone to SWA? I have honestly not read through all 206 pages on this thread but back a few months and didnt see answers to these questions. Thanks!

chase

MCRN

Sorry your interview experience wasn’t a positive one. Not the norm from feedback from others. Loads of unanswered questions about XO/VJ going forward. No one can argue that.

I was at SWA when SWA was buying Air Tran...persons interviewing at SWA would have some of the same questions you posed for XO. One could argue that the same could be applied to DAL/NWA, UAL/CAL.

Managing expectations about what one will learn during an interview about the company is important..better for us to say “unknown” than to mislead or BS about possibilities IMHO.

Acquisitions/mergers take time to play out and while what has been shared with XO/VJ pilots internally is probably greater than what is shared with interviewees, as you implied the tone/tenor of the interview wasn’t too your liking.

I think it is wise to know when the shoe doesn’t fit and are willing to walk away. Life is too short to be unhappy when multiple choices are available. BTW, if true, no interviewer should be referencing going somewhere else..Unsat for sure.

Good luck and fly safe.