Executive Airshare
01-14-2014, 06:48 AM
#1221
Holiday Inn Silver Elite
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by Macjet
You need to be comparing your pay/sched to Flex, NJA, etc. or other 135's.
Compared to -
Number of Pilots at FlexJet: 460 (Active, per this website)
Number of Pilots at NetJets: 2715 (Active, per this website)
I believe that you need to be realistic when it comes to company size and growth. The pay and schedule will improve and become more on par with these comparables when the financial and staffing structures will allow. Comparing such a smaller regional-based company with operations the size of FlexJet and NetJets is in my opinion, a very distant comparison. A simple matter of business.
As we grow and improve, so will the pay and schedule.
01-14-2014, 07:35 AM
#1222
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Airplanes
Posts: 1,378
Originally Posted by MiGBoy
Number of Pilots at EAS: 90
Compared to -
Number of Pilots at FlexJet: 460 (Active, per this website)
Number of Pilots at NetJets: 2715 (Active, per this website)
I believe that you need to be realistic when it comes to company size and growth. The pay and schedule will improve and become more on par with these comparables when the financial and staffing structures will allow. Comparing such a smaller regional-based company with operations the size of FlexJet and NetJets is in my opinion, a very distant comparison. A simple matter of business.
As we grow and improve, so will the pay and schedule.
Compared to -
Number of Pilots at FlexJet: 460 (Active, per this website)
Number of Pilots at NetJets: 2715 (Active, per this website)
I believe that you need to be realistic when it comes to company size and growth. The pay and schedule will improve and become more on par with these comparables when the financial and staffing structures will allow. Comparing such a smaller regional-based company with operations the size of FlexJet and NetJets is in my opinion, a very distant comparison. A simple matter of business.
As we grow and improve, so will the pay and schedule.
You might have a point. But does it cost EAS more to operate a 560 or 505 than anyone else whether it's a 91k, 91, or 135 operator? Is your fuel more? Catering? Hotels? MX? Does anyone else work a 12/3 schedule only knowing three days in the future with the wife asking ***?
I used to fly for a so-so 135 in Lears and understand that 135 isn't 91K or 91. But we didn't do anything near what you're doing. We were either 14/14 or 7/7. I know the market paradigm has shifted but 12/3 is crap brother. Not matter how you look at it. Your wife/husband and kids deserve better. YOU deserve better. EAS didn't show up last week. They've been around and obviously know how little some pilots are willing to work for.
I hope your lot DOES improve. We're all in this aviation pool together and we all need a livable salary and time with the family. I know several of your people, former and current. Good folks. I'm sure everyone else is as well. But please don't make excuses for this operator. Demand the schedule and salary that your professional skill set commands.
Good luck and fly safe.
01-14-2014, 07:38 AM
#1223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Left seat on a kite
Posts: 1,884
Originally Posted by Macjet
I'm glad that it's working out for you and I also know you're a cheerleader for EAS. But comparing a 91k/135 operation to the regionals isn't apples v apples. You need to be comparing your pay/sched to Flex, NJA, etc. or other 135's.
I know several of your people but most are on the managed side. And they are good folks. But the previous poster who stated that they "were the best" I think is a bit presumptuous. I would imagine "the best" are currently doing carrier traps or interviewing at places where the aircraft types begin with B or A. I wouldn't be so bold to state that my outfit has "the best".
And your pay is subpar. I made $93k last year flying a King Air. I work 7 on and 7 off and know my schedule years out until the day I leave. Our benefits aren't the best but we are well compensated for the professionals that we are and that this career demands.
I'm glad it is working for you and the other guys/gals employed there. But for the sake of the industry please don't accept your pay and schedule as "on par".
I know several of your people but most are on the managed side. And they are good folks. But the previous poster who stated that they "were the best" I think is a bit presumptuous. I would imagine "the best" are currently doing carrier traps or interviewing at places where the aircraft types begin with B or A. I wouldn't be so bold to state that my outfit has "the best".
And your pay is subpar. I made $93k last year flying a King Air. I work 7 on and 7 off and know my schedule years out until the day I leave. Our benefits aren't the best but we are well compensated for the professionals that we are and that this career demands.
I'm glad it is working for you and the other guys/gals employed there. But for the sake of the industry please don't accept your pay and schedule as "on par".
As for making 93K flying a KA, congrats on that. Making 93K is way above an avg pay rate for a King Air capt (unless you flying it in the sandbox) and you have to admit that.
I review salary surveys and other reports that reflect pay vs operation and type. So to say "I make 93K flying a King Air so you're pay is subpar" is a flawed statement. I currently make more than what is demanded by the largest airframe I fly as a PIC, but I also fly 4 airframes for this job.
01-14-2014, 07:56 AM
#1224
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Airplanes
Posts: 1,378
Originally Posted by RI830
Just because one is making carrier traps or flying Boeing/Airbus frame doesn't not define them as "best". I know plenty of people flying Boeings that I wouldn't allow my family to fly behind.
As for making 93K flying a KA, congrats on that. Making 93K is way above an avg pay rate for a King Air capt (unless you flying it in the sandbox) and you have to admit that.
I review salary surveys and other reports that reflect pay vs operation and type. So to say "I make 93K flying a King Air so you're pay is subpar" is a flawed statement. I currently make more than what is demanded by the largest airframe I fly as a PIC, but I also fly 4 airframes for this job. That's why I don't say that all Legacy PIC's that make less than me are "subpar".
As for making 93K flying a KA, congrats on that. Making 93K is way above an avg pay rate for a King Air capt (unless you flying it in the sandbox) and you have to admit that.
I review salary surveys and other reports that reflect pay vs operation and type. So to say "I make 93K flying a King Air so you're pay is subpar" is a flawed statement. I currently make more than what is demanded by the largest airframe I fly as a PIC, but I also fly 4 airframes for this job. That's why I don't say that all Legacy PIC's that make less than me are "subpar".
I know you're happy with what you're doing and where you are. And that's great. But please don't sell the rest of us short with your four airframes, 12/3 schedule, and "average" pay. Some of us are trying to make a living and spend time with our kids. Instead of saying "Making 93K is way above an avg pay rate for a King Air capt (unless you flying it in the sandbox) and you have to admit that" why don't you ask why you aren't? And this isn't a pecker measuring contest. You're obviously a competent stick. But brother, DEMAND THE PAY, QOL, AND SCHEDULE that you skill set commands! Go 7/7 or 8/6. Limit yourself to fewer types. AND GET PAID.
Again, good luck. And I do mean that. I hope EAS becomes a wonderful place to work. But, it won't happen by the good graces of management.
Fly safe.
01-14-2014, 08:59 AM
#1225
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Left seat on a kite
Posts: 1,884
Originally Posted by Macjet
Why is $93k above average? I know folks with ASN's making $300k. Why would a professional anything work for so little? Do you value your skill and time so little? Four airframes? Is that SAFE? Do your customers know that you're bouncing between so many seats? How much are you saving the company? I could see two. But not four.
I know you're happy with what you're doing and where you are. And that's great. But please don't sell the rest of us short with your four airframes, 12/3 schedule, and "average" pay. Some of us are trying to make a living and spend time with our kids. Instead of saying "Making 93K is way above an avg pay rate for a King Air capt (unless you flying it in the sandbox) and you have to admit that" why don't you ask why you aren't? And this isn't a pecker measuring contest. You're obviously a competent stick. But brother, DEMAND THE PAY, QOL, AND SCHEDULE that you skill set commands! Go 7/7 or 8/6. Limit yourself to fewer types. AND GET PAID.
Again, good luck. And I do mean that. I hope EAS becomes a wonderful place to work. But, it won't happen by the good graces of management.
Fly safe.
I know you're happy with what you're doing and where you are. And that's great. But please don't sell the rest of us short with your four airframes, 12/3 schedule, and "average" pay. Some of us are trying to make a living and spend time with our kids. Instead of saying "Making 93K is way above an avg pay rate for a King Air capt (unless you flying it in the sandbox) and you have to admit that" why don't you ask why you aren't? And this isn't a pecker measuring contest. You're obviously a competent stick. But brother, DEMAND THE PAY, QOL, AND SCHEDULE that you skill set commands! Go 7/7 or 8/6. Limit yourself to fewer types. AND GET PAID.
Again, good luck. And I do mean that. I hope EAS becomes a wonderful place to work. But, it won't happen by the good graces of management.
Fly safe.
I demand it.
There is a simple thing called free market capitalism.
Certain positions demand a certain pay. McDonalds burger flippers don't make as much as pilots or doctors for a reason.
I do not intend to measure peckers. I skmu think that one needs to understand what a certain position and airframe demandss on the payscale. To say that a pilot group should demand 100K to fy C90's is absurd. It's not a sustainable model. You pay what is reasonable and fair. There is too low and too high for any job out there.
What happens when your boss finds out he is paying you 25-30K more than thousands of other KA PiC's? Will he ask himself why?
If you can negotiate more pay and it can last, good for you. But don't wonder why you are in the street after a year or two when the boss cuts your pay or sells the airplane.
EAS pay is fitting for the plane. If you want to discuss adding a "premium" for the type of schedule, then that's a valid discussion/argument. But to simply say the EAS pilots should revolt because of subpar pay is not fair to the system that EAS operates by.
01-14-2014, 10:30 AM
#1227
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Left seat on a kite
Posts: 1,884
Originally Posted by Panzon
Macjet and RI830: is it possible to call a truce? Maybe you could settle your differences via PMs, a phone call, or over a beer. It would be nice to get back to current news about EAS.
This thread is intended for the happenings and hirings at EAS.
MMMmmmmm.....you said beer!
01-14-2014, 10:47 AM
#1228
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Airplanes
Posts: 1,378
Originally Posted by RI830
You're right! One airframe..250K and 1on/29off Sked!!
I demand it.
There is a simple thing called free market capitalism.
Certain positions demand a certain pay. McDonalds burger flippers don't make as much as pilots or doctors for a reason.
I do not intend to measure peckers. I skmu think that one needs to understand what a certain position and airframe demandss on the payscale. To say that a pilot group should demand 100K to fy C90's is absurd. It's not a sustainable model. You pay what is reasonable and fair. There is too low and too high for any job out there.
What happens when your boss finds out he is paying you 25-30K more than thousands of other KA PiC's? Will he ask himself why?
If you can negotiate more pay and it can last, good for you. But don't wonder why you are in the street after a year or two when the boss cuts your pay or sells the airplane.
EAS pay is fitting for the plane. If you want to discuss adding a "premium" for the type of schedule, then that's a valid discussion/argument. But to simply say the EAS pilots should revolt because of subpar pay is not fair to the system that EAS operates by.
I demand it.
There is a simple thing called free market capitalism.
Certain positions demand a certain pay. McDonalds burger flippers don't make as much as pilots or doctors for a reason.
I do not intend to measure peckers. I skmu think that one needs to understand what a certain position and airframe demandss on the payscale. To say that a pilot group should demand 100K to fy C90's is absurd. It's not a sustainable model. You pay what is reasonable and fair. There is too low and too high for any job out there.
What happens when your boss finds out he is paying you 25-30K more than thousands of other KA PiC's? Will he ask himself why?
If you can negotiate more pay and it can last, good for you. But don't wonder why you are in the street after a year or two when the boss cuts your pay or sells the airplane.
EAS pay is fitting for the plane. If you want to discuss adding a "premium" for the type of schedule, then that's a valid discussion/argument. But to simply say the EAS pilots should revolt because of subpar pay is not fair to the system that EAS operates by.
My boss pays four of us. And he knows what he pays. He wants the best there is (we aren't THE best but we're pretty good) and not the cheapest ass to fill the seat. And we've been at this for 35 years now. Sustainability isn't a major concern.
Again, best of luck to all of you at EAS and those soon to be there. I just wish you weren't so content to be the Great Lakes of the 91k world.
Even railroaders can't work six days in a row without mandated federal rest of 48 hours.
01-14-2014, 02:01 PM
#1229
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by Macjet
If you aren't management, you will be soon enough.
My boss pays four of us. And he knows what he pays. He wants the best there is (we aren't THE best but we're pretty good) and not the cheapest ass to fill the seat. And we've been at this for 35 years now. Sustainability isn't a major concern.
Again, best of luck to all of you at EAS and those soon to be there. I just wish you weren't so content to be the Great Lakes of the 91k world.
Even railroaders can't work six days in a row without mandated federal rest of 48 hours.
My boss pays four of us. And he knows what he pays. He wants the best there is (we aren't THE best but we're pretty good) and not the cheapest ass to fill the seat. And we've been at this for 35 years now. Sustainability isn't a major concern.
Again, best of luck to all of you at EAS and those soon to be there. I just wish you weren't so content to be the Great Lakes of the 91k world.
Even railroaders can't work six days in a row without mandated federal rest of 48 hours.
I think having two dudes arguing about EAS, when neither work there, isn't very helpful for a thread that is supposed to be a way for prospective employees to learn about the company. Sorry if my tone is harsh, but the past few pages on this thread have been worthless.
01-14-2014, 02:28 PM
#1230
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Left seat on a kite
Posts: 1,884
Originally Posted by dirtybird
Mac, RI doesn't work at EAS anymore. You seem to be confused about that. It sounds like you have a great gig, but as someone who has been in 121, 135, 91 and 91k, yours sounds like the exception, not the rule. Frankly, your posts seem a little braggy to me. I'm glad you found the golden egg, I'm just not sure why you are so interested in EAS.
I think having two dudes arguing about EAS, when neither work there, isn't very helpful for a thread that is supposed to be a way for prospective employees to learn about the company. Sorry if my tone is harsh, but the past few pages on this thread have been worthless.
I think having two dudes arguing about EAS, when neither work there, isn't very helpful for a thread that is supposed to be a way for prospective employees to learn about the company. Sorry if my tone is harsh, but the past few pages on this thread have been worthless.
Sorry for the direction the thread has gone. I get a little defensive about the attitude and tone that some have about EAS.
It appears Macjet is furloughed from Netjets so you can understand where his argument comes from.
I wish all the best for the EAS group and want to make sure truth is posted here and not a bunch of opinions and lies.
Hope you are doing well and I am guessing you should be upgrading soon if you haven't already!!
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