Aero1900

Right. Your math is correct and I thank you for that. I was responding to a post that claimed you'd have to credit 130 hours to get close to industry standard pay and I was refuting that because it's so ridiculous.

If we vote this in, and I'm not arguing one way or another, we will be compensated less than United pilots. No question. What I was trying to show is an accurate comparison. The post I was responding to was looking at it from the point of how much more you'd have to credit to achieve the same compensation.

ReserveCA

What if I only want to credit 60.........
X $250 min.....

DrJekyll MrHyde

Well, since you have mentioned you are mid-level seniority you should be bringing up what you would make monthly as a Captain. You’d be getting paid under the GUTTED section of the pay scale (years 2-11). So I’ll use year 6 pay for this example.

United A320: 249×75= $18,675
Frontier A320: 210×75= $15,750

It’s a 16% difference/discount of $2925 ($35,100 yearly) which amounts to 14 extra hours you must work on a monthly basis to receive equivalent monthly pay alone (that obviously doesn’t include retirement and other benefits).

Point being if you disregard year 12 pay and only look at the years leading up to and including 11, it looks considerably worse! The far majority of voting pilots will not see year 12 during the course of the 5 year contract. You and they are really taking it in the shorts.

Gary et al

I think you misunderstood his post. I think he is talking about over the course of a year, and what it would take to adjust our hourly rate to match. While he exaggerated, you under bid. I'm going to run two scenarios one a 12+ year Captain with 4 vacation periods, and the other a 4 year FO with 2 vacation periods. It also states on this site that United will be getting a 4% raise as of 1/1/2019 that puts their respective rates 282.88 and 168.48, our proposed at 244.68 and 122.10

United @ guarantee
12*70*CA = 237,619
12*70*FO = 141,523

United @ more realistic 76hrs
12*76*CA = 257,986
12*76*FO = 153,653

For us to match UA @ 70hrs
237,619 / 244.68 / 12 = 80.9hrs UA +11
141,523 / 122.10 / 12 = 96.6 UA +26 <edit 96-70 = 26 not 16 lol

For us to match UA @ 76hrs
257,986 / 244.68 / 12 = 87.9 UA +12
153,653 / 122.10 / 12 = 104.9 UA +29

Now to take it a step further, let's just use UA @ 70hrs to make it even more conservative and favoring of our proposal. CA's have to credit an average of 10.9 hours every month to equal UA pay, so if they worked our guarantee of 75hrs, what would they have to do in each vacation month?

237,619 / 244.68 = 971.1 total yearly credit hours
971.1 - (75*8 non vacation months) = 371.1 hours to fly in vacation months
371.1 / 4 = 92.8 hrs = about 90.5 + our 1.25%


The story gets worse for FO's especially comparing it to a UA FO @ 76hrs

153,653 / 122.1 = 1258.4 total yearly credit hours
1258.4 - (75*10) = 508.4
508.4 / 2 = 254.2 hrs = 220 hrs with our 1.25%

Bump our FO up to 81 since UA is at 76 and it looks like

1258.4 - 810 = 448.4
448.4 / 2 = 196 hrs with our 1.25%

SOOOO....130 hrs credit in vacation months to compare ourselves to United is not far fetched depending on your seat, amount of vacation periods you have, and how many hours worked you are comparing.

Since you are using math, I figured we'd use it correctly.

Gary et al

All of my numbers adjusted to UA's current 272 and 162 pay for stated years and seats


United @ guarantee
12*70*CA = 228,480
12*70*FO = 136,080

United @ more realistic 76hrs
12*76*CA = 248,064
12*76*FO = 147,744

For us to match UA @ 70hrs
228,480 / 244.68 / 12 = 77.8hrs UA +8
136,080 / 122.10 / 12 = 92.9 UA +23

For us to match UA @ 76hrs
248,064 / 244.68 / 12 = 84.5 UA +8.5
147,744 / 122.10 / 12 = 100.8 UA +25

Now to take it a step further, let's just use UA @ 70hrs to make it even more conservative and favoring of our proposal. CA's have to credit an average of 7.8 hours every month to equal UA pay, so if they worked our guarantee of 75hrs, what would they have to do in each vacation month?

228,480 / 244.68 = 933.8 total yearly credit hours
933.8 - (75*8 non vacation months) = 333.8 hours to fly in vacation months
333.8 / 4 = 83.4 hrs = about 83.1 + our 1.25%


The story gets worse for FO's especially comparing it to a UA FO @ 76hrs

147,744 / 122.1 = 1210.0 total yearly credit hours
1210.0 - (75*10) = 460
460 / 2 = 230.0 hrs = 200.4 hrs with our 1.25%

Bump our FO up to 81 since UA is at 76 and it looks like

1210.0 - 810 = 400
400/ 2 = 176.4 hrs with our 1.25%

Aero1900

Thanks to both of you guys for working the numbers above.

I believe that will really help people understand where this TA is. What we need to know now are the nitty gritty details to see what kind of soft time we are going to be looking at.

Then, we need to decide if we are willing to work for 15% less than the top of the industry pay. That decision is for everyone to make on their own.

I'm curious to know what percentage of a discount we are currently working at compared to united, but I'm almost afraid to even calculate it.

Biffsteritis

Filler....

motorboatin

You’re totally right...Why waste my time trying to influence a few inconsequential No voters!! Have a good one Saluki

Wheelswatch

Wow! Imbeciles, slimy dirtbags, weak links, lacking good taste, no self respect, miserable with life, and douchey?

That's rich!

It's a democratic process motorboatin. We're only communicating our thoughts and opinions, and we'll all have our vote.

Keep looking down your nose at me; it isn't going to keep me from participating in this important part of the process.

But rest easy, it will undoubtedly pass. Too many scaredy cats.

Ohreallynow

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