You guys keep saying ‘bottom of the industry pay’. So the proposed rates are lower than Spirit’s? And if so, why would your MEC bring you a TA with rates lower than Spirit. I can’t imagine your union doing that. On a side note, Frontier has evolved into a budget airline...I mean, you can’t expect Delta rates (even though you start negotiations with them).

That's what we are saying...why are they even bringing it to us. Many of us have contacted our reps telling them to send it back, but the reps are not inclined to do so.

and no we didn't even ask for Delta, we just asked for industry average, and yes the rates are lower than Spirit and somehow we are going to make up for it with work rules?

TA's rates as of 3/2/19:1....183.70.......57.64
2....198.83.......107.58
3....201.92.......115.56
4....206.04.......122.10
5....208.10.......129.53
6....210.17.......134.88
7....213.42.......141.04
8....219.78.......145.26
9....225.26.......151.12
10...230.90.......154.88
11...233.50.......158.64
12...244.68.......162.40

They aren’t lower than Spirit. They are basically equal to Spirit till the last couple of years. One of those years is beyond Spirits amendable date. The vacation is better and the union control of pbs is better at F9. The 1.25 over 82 and the min guarantee is better. That’s all we know thus far.

Once upon a time, in a magical city called Denver, a group of good ol' boys decided to resurrect a failed airline from 8 years prior. It was 1994 and the industry was still reeling from the the Gulf War three years prior.

A wayward group of gypsy pilots who were either furloughed from other airlines, or mistimed their entry into professional pilot careers were hired to wrastle a small fleet small fleet of gently used 737-200's.

The little airline continued to grow. Soon, the added 737-300's, and those eventually led to Airbii. Things were going good Denver's little hometown airline.

Then 9/11 happened and the bottom fell out of the airline industry. Still, the Spirit of the West persevered. When TWA, Delta, American, United, and USAir furloughed, it took desperate pilots under its wing. When Vanguard and MarkAir folded, it offered shelter to a few lucky souls looking for a port in the storm. Tier 2 and Tier 3 regional pilots were put to work while waiting for the call from the "Big 3". 135 guys, scruffy cargo dogs were all offered a chance.

Then things went dark in the Magical Kingdom of Denver. The little airline that could, just couldn't anymore. Things looked bleak on the A concourse.

Then, a Knight in shining armor stepped up to the gallows, just as the henchman was about to pull the rope. "I'll save you!" Shouted Republic Airways Holdings! (for brevity's sake I'll skip this chapter)

The darkest days were upon The Animal. Just when it seemed nothing more could be done to stop the profuse bleeding of Frontier, a dark, shadowy figure appeared from the sewer! "Hello downtrodden Frontier employees, my name is Beelz...er, Bill Franke. I can help you keep your airline, and that 'Gee, the pilot group here is just super' feeling intact. But it will cost you your SOUL!"

(For brevity's sake, again, I'll skip a few chapters)

And here we are.

Does that about sum it up?





The issue with the yes voters, (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that they're being called scabs, crutches, helpers, spineless, cowards, etc..

We've got some on here even saying they're gonna take screenshots of them voting "no". A couple of others even saying they're gonna post youtube videos of their "No" vote. WHAT in the WHAT?!?!?!?

This has gone beyond stupid. The way some folks are posting on here isn't healthy. Like, seriously unhealthy. They're gonna have a heart attack and lose medicals over their personal views. Jesus guys/gals. Step back from the keyboard for a minute, think about what is coming out of your posts, drink a fukking beer, and let it go. No's, yes's, undecided's-this is still a pretty cool group if dingleberry's that we're all gonna have to spend up to 4 days together with. Don't make it so personal. Jeez.

For the foreseeable future NK rates have 2.5% override, so they are higher. The vacation and PBS is unsure as nothing has been said about it other than"yuuge", our premium is 200%, our LTD is (probably) better.
Having said that, our contract is close enough to the bottom you don't want to be near it.

You are right! I do not expect Delta wages, but I do expect industry average.

This turd will only turn into a prickly ugly weed flower...

They are lower than Spirit, that is a fact. Yes they are close, but they are still LOWER. Eventually after several years our rates slightly surpass theirs, and keeping hypotheticals out of it just looking at the contracts as presented yes at a date a long way in the future F9 jumps NK.

Spirit DOS+1 +2%
1....185.51.......58.21
2....200.79.......108.64
3....203.91.......116.69
4....208.08.......123.30
5....210.16.......130.80
6....212.24.......136.21
7....215.52.......142.43
8....221.95.......146.70
9....227.48.......152.61
10...233.18.......156.42
11...237.82.......160.21
12...247.09.......164.01

and ours again1....183.70.......57.64
2....198.83.......107.58
3....201.92.......115.56
4....206.04.......122.10
5....208.10.......129.53
6....210.17.......134.88
7....213.42.......141.04
8....219.78.......145.26
9....225.26.......151.12
10...230.90.......154.88
11...233.50.......158.64
12...244.68.......162.40

Not one of them is higher.

Yes

We don't know that

What is 1.25 worth?

90hr month = 92 = 2.2%
100hr month = 104.5 = 4.5%
120hr month = 129.5 = 7.9%

It really isn't worth that much, especially when you consider their premium folder is worth 200% where ours is TA'd at 150%

Their trip rig is set to match ours at 3.5, they also have 5hr min duty period average. We don't yet know if ours is average or per duty period, but it doesn't matter as they get an extra duty period for layovers over 24 hrs so that protects them from those 3 duty period 4 days where ours would not.

How does that work again?

Spirit 72 hour guarantee
Frontier 75 hour guarantee