Originally Posted by dracir1

What you term as being reasonable is what i term as defeatist. Why do you think you’re more reasonable than me? Perhaps it’s your background or just your overall perception of your own value. I have no idea. But let’s be clear about MY perception of this company, my worth and what I feel is reasonable...

Indigo came in, bought a company in distress that was paying its labor well below market rates and cashed in. Let’s be clear here - the rates were concessionary rates and should never be confused with the words average or mediocre. We re the lowest paid Airbus pilots in America by wide margin. SW FOs make more than 15 year CAs here. Because of that, Indigo has been operating with a large profit for some time now. And, because of the business model, are primed to operate that way for MANY years to come. When the next 9/11 happens or gas prices go up, this company will be in a better position than most to weather those storms and continue operating. Therefore, the contract we’re negotiating now is for 2020 and beyond rates. You want to catch us up to 2016 . . . $245 will be well below the rates most other airlines will be making in the next 3-5 years. To catch up now means to be surpassed by the next airline shortly thereafter. This is NOT a foreign concept and is not only prevalent in airlines but also major sports figures, etc. The percentage of increase (45% or whatever) isn’t really that important to me - especially when you consider the increased percentage of profit the company has seen off our backs since they took over. I am worth every bit of at least the expected average rate of an Airbus pilot in a major US airline for 2020 and beyond. That rate should go up every year to reflect the increase of my worth. I’m not trying to hurt the company or get some massive and undeserved pay raise. I’ve EARNED it. Hell, you have too. And we’re not even talking about reparations . . . Just the amount that puts me at an average rate in 3-5 years after half the Airbus driving pilot unions renegotiate their contracts. I will never feel like just because I’m at the bottom now that I should take average now just to be at the bottom again. And remember, all this occurs and the company still makes money.

You call me unreasonable because you say I want/expect too much. I say you’re a defeatist because you expect too little.

Hopefully, we will both know soon enough, and despite what you think, every single pilot union contract ever put into place HAD to go through a vote. If more people vote for your “reasonable but less” one, I will live by it. Can you stand the pain if the masses want to try the market, possibly get released and fight for what you call “unreasonable but more?”

Originally Posted by therapysession

Is that a rhetorical question? Or do you honestly believe that anonymous users on a public forum have any bearing on how the company bargains? I can see it now in front of the NMB, "We know we've been dead locked on certain issues, but after reading DENpilot on APC we know they will take this!"

Give me a break, and don't call your fellow pilot's names.

Originally Posted by I like BIG Bus

Even your screen name, therapysession. Like your the voice of reason, and are going to school us on what reasonable expectations should be. I mean, you may not be a company troll, but you're waddling and quacking like one.

Originally Posted by Gary et al

therapy session. the rapy session. the rape session.

Originally Posted by dracir1

What you term as being reasonable is what i term as defeatist. Why do you think you’re more reasonable than me? Perhaps it’s your background or just your overall perception of your own value. I have no idea. But let’s be clear about MY perception of this company, my worth and what I feel is reasonable...

Indigo came in, bought a company in distress that was paying its labor well below market rates and cashed in. Let’s be clear here - the rates were concessionary rates and should never be confused with the words average or mediocre. We re the lowest paid Airbus pilots in America by wide margin. SW FOs make more than 15 year CAs here. Because of that, Indigo has been operating with a large profit for some time now. And, because of the business model, are primed to operate that way for MANY years to come. When the next 9/11 happens or gas prices go up, this company will be in a better position than most to weather those storms and continue operating. Therefore, the contract we’re negotiating now is for 2020 and beyond rates. You want to catch us up to 2016 . . . $245 will be well below the rates most other airlines will be making in the next 3-5 years. To catch up now means to be surpassed by the next airline shortly thereafter. This is NOT a foreign concept and is not only prevalent in airlines but also major sports figures, etc. The percentage of increase (45% or whatever) isn’t really that important to me - especially when you consider the increased percentage of profit the company has seen off our backs since they took over. I am worth every bit of at least the expected average rate of an Airbus pilot in a major US airline for 2020 and beyond. That rate should go up every year to reflect the increase of my worth. I’m not trying to hurt the company or get some massive and undeserved pay raise. I’ve EARNED it. Hell, you have too. And we’re not even talking about reparations . . . Just the amount that puts me at an average rate in 3-5 years after half the Airbus driving pilot unions renegotiate their contracts. I will never feel like just because I’m at the bottom now that I should take average now just to be at the bottom again. And remember, all this occurs and the company still makes money.

You call me unreasonable because you say I want/expect too much. I say you’re a defeatist because you expect too little.

Hopefully, we will both know soon enough, and despite what you think, every single pilot union contract ever put into place HAD to go through a vote. If more people vote for your “reasonable but less” one, I will live by it. Can you stand the pain if the masses want to try the market, possibly get released and fight for what you call “unreasonable but more?”

Originally Posted by therapysession

Haha I did in fact laugh reading that, so kudos. Sick burn bro!

And we want Delta pay.....

Originally Posted by NWSteeringArmer

you’re worth exactly what your pay rate says... you keep showing up... you don’t like it here, leave

Originally Posted by Wheelswatch

So many problems with this statement^

Originally Posted by NWSteeringArmer

What’s the problem with that statement?? We might deserve more pay... we might have earned more pay... but we keep showing up!!

A baseball card pricing guide could tell me a Babe Ruth rookie card is worth $100,000... I think I deserve to get paid $100,000 for that card but if someone is only willing to give me $10,000, that’s what it’s worth... and if no one wants it, it isn’t worth the cardboard it’s printed on...

You can sit here on these ***** boards and say this isn’t fair, I deserve this, I’ve earned this all day... you can say in 3-5 years we’ll be behind everyone still... and that may be the case, but this industry is a cycle... who was the highest paid airbus operator in the US less than a decade ago?? All this crap changes and it can change very quickly...

Originally Posted by I like BIG Bus

Hey Rapey,

Delta +1% is what we should get. However you do realize our ask is not that. All the BS you've spewed on these forums is laughable but this last blurb of delta pay has completely discredited everything else you say from now on solely due to the fact that it proves you have no idea what our goals are. You sir have proven yourself a TROLL and worthy of no other responses about this subject.