Union is right! Spirit plus 1
I wonder if they pay per post. Maybe the pay is so bad you gotta post over 82 posts and get 1.25% bump over 82.
12-21-2018 | 06:15 AM
#92
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 129
Likes: 2
From: Airbus (the wide ones)
Hey Todd, and you can PM me if you like, but I’ll let everyone here know so let’s just get it out in public, are you a union guy who fancies himself being a management guys some day and you’re stepping on your fellow pilots heads, just to kiss Management bum, or are you really in the cubicle next to butthert?
I’ve seen this act before and it’s so pathetic. I get it that the union has signed papers agreeing to support the TA. In a perfect world, that would mean giving the pilots you represent “accurate” information and saying “yes” I think this is the best we can do. That is all you have to do to satisfy the legal agreement with Management and let the pilots talk amongst themselves and decide for themselves whether this agreement is acceptable.
If you’re a management type, which is what I’m leaning towards, and judging by what I’ve read, I’m thinking internish, maybe first or second year assistant to some inconsequential middle management type ( I have no idea how many levels of MGT F9 has, but I’m sure there are more guys getting paid very well for doing little over on tower road than there are guys getting paid well for getting the job done (Pilots), and keeping the operation running day in and day out.)
Give it a rest. Seriously. If you see information that is truly inaccurate, which I’m sure you have, ok...you can correct someone. But you and butthert, sitting here making shhhhhh....stuff up is truly pathetic and an embarrassment to this profession, no matter which side of the table you align with. (Unfortunately, even our union brethren find themselves aligning with management when they realize the disparity in income levels.)
And if you want to ask for an example of you guys making stuff up, the other day I saw BH trying to say that pilot costs were a mere drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, or words to that effect. Someone correctly countered that labor costs were actually second, only to fuel costs.
When I read these posts from the obvious disrupters, it reminds me of a very dark time in my career. I had recently been recalled to Delta in the spring of 2005 after 3 years on furlough. The pilots, while I was out on the street had already agreed to (I think) a 28% pay cut. Now it’s late summer of 2005 and Delta was telling us they needed more. I don’t remember the number but it equated to a cumulative 42% pay cut. That doesn’t include all the back sliding and down grades that further affected income and QOL. Whenever I was on our forum, there were these recently signed up guys that were always there trying to maintain calm and trying to control the flow of information. They kept saying “Read the TA, talk to your family, and cast your vote, based on what is best for you and your family.”
One day I responded and said I gathered all the information and I was voting NO! These guys went crazy, saying stuff like “but you don’t HAVE all the information, you haven’t seen the fleet plan like we have, as soon as this contract is agreed to, we are going to place the largest aircraft order in the history of the Airline industry. You have to trust us! That was my own union representation talking to me. Sometimes I wonder, and I hate to be so cynical of mankind sometimes, what’s in it for them? Why do they sometimes seem so motivated to help bad deals go through? At that time we were weeks away from going BK, which we did and then the A plan pensions went poof on top of half the pay we had agreed to.
To that last point of what’s in it for them though, our last contract negotiation, I really wondered what management offered our MEC Chairman, when, after years of clawing our way back up, and being told we will get em next time or this sets us up perfectly for our next contract, that our first TA was severely lacking, and when confronted about it during a road show in Peachtree City, (The most welcoming and company friendly audience he was going to find), our MEC Chairman started screaming at his pilots that if we voted it down, the next step was a PEB! He literally screamed it at his membership. The first thing I asked myself is “What’s in it for him, that he’s so angry?” I hate feeling that way, but we are all driven by what’s best for ourselves and our family. Was he bought and paid for? I don’t know but we were making $5 Billion a year and he wanted us to accept rates and work rules way worse (when adjusted for inflation) than we had in 2001.
I don’t know what to tell you guys. Sorry for hijacking your thread. The entire industry supports you. The raises are substantial. There is no denying that. Is it enough? That’s your decision, and rates aren’t everything. I’m 48, if I was there, I’d be concerned about LTD which isn’t own occupation. My entire point, which I made a long story longer, is that every contract negotiation I can remember since 2005, when the TA is out there for the membership, there are always several Buttherts and ToddChavez’s out there spreading “FUD”. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. I haven’t been here in a while but from what I’ve seen, any negative posts get their treatment. Sometimes subtle, sometimes not. I don’t know who they’re working for but it isn’t the Pilots. Good luck and vote the way you want. Don’t try to change someone else’s opinion, and don’t let them change yours. Everyone gets one vote.
I’ve seen this act before and it’s so pathetic. I get it that the union has signed papers agreeing to support the TA. In a perfect world, that would mean giving the pilots you represent “accurate” information and saying “yes” I think this is the best we can do. That is all you have to do to satisfy the legal agreement with Management and let the pilots talk amongst themselves and decide for themselves whether this agreement is acceptable.
If you’re a management type, which is what I’m leaning towards, and judging by what I’ve read, I’m thinking internish, maybe first or second year assistant to some inconsequential middle management type ( I have no idea how many levels of MGT F9 has, but I’m sure there are more guys getting paid very well for doing little over on tower road than there are guys getting paid well for getting the job done (Pilots), and keeping the operation running day in and day out.)
Give it a rest. Seriously. If you see information that is truly inaccurate, which I’m sure you have, ok...you can correct someone. But you and butthert, sitting here making shhhhhh....stuff up is truly pathetic and an embarrassment to this profession, no matter which side of the table you align with. (Unfortunately, even our union brethren find themselves aligning with management when they realize the disparity in income levels.)
And if you want to ask for an example of you guys making stuff up, the other day I saw BH trying to say that pilot costs were a mere drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, or words to that effect. Someone correctly countered that labor costs were actually second, only to fuel costs.
When I read these posts from the obvious disrupters, it reminds me of a very dark time in my career. I had recently been recalled to Delta in the spring of 2005 after 3 years on furlough. The pilots, while I was out on the street had already agreed to (I think) a 28% pay cut. Now it’s late summer of 2005 and Delta was telling us they needed more. I don’t remember the number but it equated to a cumulative 42% pay cut. That doesn’t include all the back sliding and down grades that further affected income and QOL. Whenever I was on our forum, there were these recently signed up guys that were always there trying to maintain calm and trying to control the flow of information. They kept saying “Read the TA, talk to your family, and cast your vote, based on what is best for you and your family.”
One day I responded and said I gathered all the information and I was voting NO! These guys went crazy, saying stuff like “but you don’t HAVE all the information, you haven’t seen the fleet plan like we have, as soon as this contract is agreed to, we are going to place the largest aircraft order in the history of the Airline industry. You have to trust us! That was my own union representation talking to me. Sometimes I wonder, and I hate to be so cynical of mankind sometimes, what’s in it for them? Why do they sometimes seem so motivated to help bad deals go through? At that time we were weeks away from going BK, which we did and then the A plan pensions went poof on top of half the pay we had agreed to.
To that last point of what’s in it for them though, our last contract negotiation, I really wondered what management offered our MEC Chairman, when, after years of clawing our way back up, and being told we will get em next time or this sets us up perfectly for our next contract, that our first TA was severely lacking, and when confronted about it during a road show in Peachtree City, (The most welcoming and company friendly audience he was going to find), our MEC Chairman started screaming at his pilots that if we voted it down, the next step was a PEB! He literally screamed it at his membership. The first thing I asked myself is “What’s in it for him, that he’s so angry?” I hate feeling that way, but we are all driven by what’s best for ourselves and our family. Was he bought and paid for? I don’t know but we were making $5 Billion a year and he wanted us to accept rates and work rules way worse (when adjusted for inflation) than we had in 2001.
I don’t know what to tell you guys. Sorry for hijacking your thread. The entire industry supports you. The raises are substantial. There is no denying that. Is it enough? That’s your decision, and rates aren’t everything. I’m 48, if I was there, I’d be concerned about LTD which isn’t own occupation. My entire point, which I made a long story longer, is that every contract negotiation I can remember since 2005, when the TA is out there for the membership, there are always several Buttherts and ToddChavez’s out there spreading “FUD”. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. I haven’t been here in a while but from what I’ve seen, any negative posts get their treatment. Sometimes subtle, sometimes not. I don’t know who they’re working for but it isn’t the Pilots. Good luck and vote the way you want. Don’t try to change someone else’s opinion, and don’t let them change yours. Everyone gets one vote.
12-21-2018 | 06:47 AM
#93
Thread Starter
On Reserve
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 155
Likes: 10
Don’t listen to butthert. He’s either a company apologist or one of our, high seniority, bottom feeding pilots who loves our current system and can’t wait to exploit a new TA. Maybe he’s the same guy bragging all over FB about his W2?
12-21-2018 | 08:12 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Shouldn't everyone want to maximize this new TA?
12-21-2018 | 08:54 AM
#95
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 129
Likes: 2
From: Airbus (the wide ones)
I thinks it’s F9Driver reincarnated. Look when F9Driver stopped posting and when Butthert started.
12-21-2018 | 09:46 AM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Seeing as you can tell the future....Can you tell me tomorrow’s sports scores because I want to place some bets.
12-21-2018 | 10:04 AM
#98
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 327
Likes: 5
If you think anticipating that this penny pinching company won’t exploit the language to try to maximize productivity and minimize pilot compensation is predicting the future, then yes, I CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE!!! A lot of pilots will be working harder to try to get to the 82 hour mark to get there measly 4-7 dollar an hour raise! Remember, the company sets the line credit value and has optimizers and will try to get every pilot working 75-80 hrs with 12 days off.
12-21-2018 | 10:26 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,753
Likes: 101
From: 1900D CA
We must be different domicile or seat. I see a 3 day, 9.5 hrs credit trip in open time. The duty day would take it to 10 credit, but the Rig takes it to over 13.
That's a 3.5 hour gain in credit at a 50% pay raise. For me, that trip would go from $836 to $1768.
12-21-2018 | 10:26 AM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
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