Stayontarget

Depends on why they fail. The rumor I’ve heard…”they can’t land. Flare 50ft to high or no flare. No consistency…..It’s just not coming together and they are at 100 hours IOE after multiple times back in the sims to work on it…”This is just what I’ve heard.

Xdashdriver

Firstly, it wasn't most of the class. Secondly, unless you know the specifics of each of the failures (which you don't), there's no way you can tell what the root cause is. A sweeping generalization that it had to be the instructors demonstrates how little you know about how these things work. Comparing it to college classes is also way off base. We don't grade on a curve. You either meet the ACS standards or you don't. You can fail a checkride on one item, even if it's a brain fart. You don't fail a college class for having brain fart on one item.

covid19

We aren't a university. Applicants either meet the proscribed standard or don't. It's black and white we don't grade on a curve like colleges do.

This reminds me of working at a multi-fleet airline years ago. Those of us in training for one fleet were given all sorts of grief over failure rates both in the sim and during oe. We pointed out things had changed and we weren't getting the same quality new hires as before. Despite pressure from above. Failures increased, sim time increased and oe continued to take more hours. Once hiring increased and new hires were once again put in the other fleet, failures spiked on the other fleet. The check airman told management the same thing we had previously. We aren't getting the same quality of new hires as before.

With low-time guys coming through we are going to have higher failures. Applicants just don't have the same experience and our training department isn't geared like a regional to help them get through.

TransWorld

Reread what I said. If one (or a few) fail, it is their fault. If most fail, it is the instructor’s fault. (For doing a poor job of instructing.)

Same with professors. If a class of 30 has 5 that fail, that is their fault. If a class of 30 has 25 that fail, it is the professor’s fault. (The professor isn’t teaching, to even minimum quality.)

I remember a chemistry professor with about 30 students. He awarded 1 C, 2 Ds, and about 27 Fs. His department chair moved him the next semester to teach something else, with a stern warning. He left the university at the end of the year, with a ‘Do Not Rehire’ on his personnel file.

Xdashdriver

I see the goal posts have shifted. Yesterday, 6/23 was enough to call it the instructors’ fault, today it’s “most” in order for it to be the instructors’ fault. Ultimately, these numbers are all just hypothetical anyway because no one here knows the real numbers or what the reasons/causes were. Rather a pointless discussion.

fcoolaiddrinker

This everyone needs to pass mentally needs to stop imo or we’re going to end up a society of dumbasses. My wife works at a college and parents call regularly upset with the argument I’m paying a lot of $ for my kid to be getting a c average. They try to put pressure on educators to dumb everything down so everyone can average a 4.0.

Aero1900

The standards haven't changed
The majority of the instructors haven't changed
The Examiners haven't changed

The market has changed however.

What exactly are we arguing about here? Passing an Airbus type ride isn't easy. There's a tremendous amount of information you need to know. You must perform well at a complex task. There will be failures, it's not surprising. Not really sure there's much more to say

TransWorld

That is not what I said. You are reading into it what your wife’s experience is. Incidentally, my example of the chemistry class was from nearly half a century ago.

fcoolaiddrinker

Understood but it is becoming a problem. This is a major university system not just one college. My sister is also battling the same issue (it’s not $ it’s my kid deserves an A) as a high school teacher. Anyhow I’m fairly confident it’s not an instructor problem.

BusBoe

Lol. Never jump straight to a LCC flying Cessna 172's. You will have a bad, bad time. And potentially wash out. If you don't wash out, you're looking at a line check failure down the road, or recurrent failure. Go to a regional first with a proven great training department (endeavor, Mesa, republic). Finish IOE, get 500 hours, and THEN think about the big boy jet LCC's.

Failures weren't so common because in the past, you'd have 1000 regional jet hour guys, or RJ captains come on with great jet experience. When you hire a 1500 piston cfi, it's a whole other story. Sure some can succeed, but failure is still on the horizon and it's not a walk in the park.