The one thing about our current state of affairs that I just don't see any solution to is our place in the contract cycle.

I can see how a lot of issues can be negotiated to a level of reasonable satisfaction but our place in the cycle is tough.

A "snap up" or "market rate adjustment" would be a fantastic accomplishment but it still doesn't fix the fact that we are hopelessly far behind in the cycle. The only way the company would agree to any snap up or market adjustment would be too a peer group that none of us want to be tied to. Think Allegiant/ Avelo. No way is Frontier agreeing to being on the hook for pay rates associated with the next round of legacy contracts. They just won't go for it.

I do fear that between the business model and our place in the cycle we are forever destined to be at the back. I just don't see a way out. We can't wait for Delta or Alaska to secure their next deal, that's just too far away. And Frontier isn't going to agree to a very short deal either. They obviously want a 5 year deal, where the best case is a 4 year deal but either way we are in a bad spot.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm by no means doom and gloom. I expect and trust that Alpa will deliver is a good contract with solid gains. The next contract we have will legitimately be a career contract and everyone will be able to build wealth and retire with ton of money in their 401k but I don't see any way that we get on par with the legacies. It's a rough combination of where we are now, who we are and when everyone else is negotiating.

There's so many parts to a good contract and so many different priorities I'm not sure where a snap up or market rate adjustment fits in? If we could get language that says we snap up to Delta - 5%, I'd be willing to give something up for that, but if the language is we get a one time snap up to an average of the companies view of our peer group, I don't think I'm willing to put much weight there! I'm not giving up anything to have language tieing us to Allegiant and Avelo.

 

The company may not agree to the 3 year contract but I think it’s important that we try to stick to it so we can at least move closer to the timeline.

Im going to pretend you didn’t say the rest.

 

I don’t understand why anyone here thinks we deserve a snap up to legacy rates, sure we do the same job with less resources than them but at the end of the day they make so much more money than us. We are a ULCC I’d expect a snap up to other ULCCs hopefully with this transitional phase we are going into we can be lumped into the LCC market and that would be a huge win for us.

 

lol. Okay. So we don’t pay the same for fuel or gates or airplanes? Yeah. No thanks. We deserve the same rate. We move more passengers. The company already gets a discount because we blend the 321 and 320 rates. Your argument works for yourself. But it doesn’t work for anyone else I know. So it seems like maybe you’re thinking is your own.


we deserve 1:1 legacy rates. That’s the end of story. Thanks.

 

SWA literally makes more than DAL! And they are transforming into our exact model. In fact we are looking to end up more "premium" than they are, stop trying to sell yourself short.

The market rate is set, plain and simple.

 

Here is some net margin history of F9. You tell us where a 35% increase in pay comes from.

12/2020: -18%

3/2021: -25.79%

6/2021: -18.83%

9/2021: -10.36%

12/2021: -4.95%

3/2022: -5.51%

6/2022: -4.98%

9/2022: -4.26%

12/2022: -1.11%

3/2023: +1.99%

6/2023: +3.50%

9/2023: +1.80%

12/2023: -.31%

3/2024: -.67%

6/2024: -1.72%

9/2024: -.11%

12/2024: +2.23%

3/2025: +1.75%

 

“Past performance does not guarantee future results”

 

Really?? So, an airline that operates the way Frontier does, is run by Barry Biffle, has negative profitability as often as Frontier does will just suddenly increase gross margin because…. Why?

 

The issue you guys have, IMO, is that in order to get the pay rate you want, the company literally has to change its entire operating structure. They have to actually care about being an airline.

Barry and his dark overlord, Franke, are quite content with operations as they are and margins as they are. They aren’t interested in changing the operation. It works quite well for whatever goes on inside the black box that is Indigo Holdings Group.

It’s not that you don’t deserve the pay because you are a ULCC. You do deserve it. Expecting the entire operation to change to accommodate industry standard pilot rates is completely unrealistic. Again. IMO.

 

I bet you’re just a ball of fun to fly with. Get bent