ummm NO!

CONCESSION STAND IS CLOSED

we have been taking concessions since January

 

Have you read the negotiation newsletters? Pretty much every proposal the company has put forth has been concessionary or at or below industry standard. Management can’t even agree to stop assigning unawarded vac. A provision that costs nothing.
We want an industry standard contract tomorrow. Management wants to delay that as long as possible so they don’t put anything on the table a reasonable person could work with.

 

Not trying to throw you under the bus, but given what we've heard from the union, do you have anything specific that you think we might need to give or just a general thought? The bar has been set, and I genuinely don't know what we can honestly give up.

 

You are not wrong.

Part of our problem is our Union seems to give things away with a subtle expectation that relations will improve only to find out in negotiations that NONE of the things they intentionally gave away are getting them any credit. SJU is the example that comes to mind most recently. A more savy Union would have said " you want a base in SJU? we can talk about that IN THE NEW CONTRACT. WHICH WE HAVE BEEN NEGOIATING FOR SIX MONTHS NOW." There is always action behind the sceans that I won't know or understand ,but objectvely we can all look at the Union and say they are not bring home the bacon. I like the Union guys I meet I know they work hard, But if they can't put any points up on the score board does it really matter? The play by play monthly news letter makes it clear that the company does not want to spend any more. I am sure they are a bunch of underhanded basterds. What I can't see is that the company is somehow better at this then EVERY THING ELSE they do, Or how they are better then all the Legacies and Southwest and Alaska, and all of the regional carriers. It is not impossable but is it likely?

Inevitably some one will take what I said and say it is weakining our Union because of my lack of unwavering support. The reality is if I thought it would help I would be unwavering. I don't think that. I believe in Extream accountability ,and that Blind faith in anything leads to an ever deteroation status quo. I hope our guys can pull it together ,but we have no cards to play, there is nothing dragging them to the table. The only thing that brought them to the table last time was an inability to hire. Now with the never ending stream of Program pilots Strike Authorization is all we have. If that gets blocked we have no cards to play. We will be stuck at current pay rates for a long time.

So wear Your Strike Lanyards when we get them, but Also be ready to make changes to your LEC in the future. We can't just keep going around and around like this.

 

Don't get frustrated with the union. The company holds all the cards. That's how the RLA is written. You can't hold the lack of progress against the union. The deck is stacked against labor, big time.

Most airline contracts take 3.5 to 4 years to negotiate. The RLA was written to keep the trains a chuggin' and not to allow the railroad workers to strike. When the law was written, the railway was an absolute critical part of the US economy. Keep the trains moving.

 

Your capitalized statement wouldn’t have played out well. Now you have made really no proposal with that statement and would be at the mercy of the companies proposal in arbitration. 6.D.
It’s fine to question loa’s but at least read the language first to understand why they agreed to what they did.

 

Exactly!!!

OK, it seems from reading most of these entries (prior to the one I'm replying to) that this is either most 1st negotiation or they are mgt trolls. Either way...

THE WHOLE POINT OF NEGOTIATION IS TO GET MORE! If a McDonald's employee goes to their manager and asks for a raise, they want a RAISE. They want MORE money for the exact same work. They're not looking for an agreement that pays them more but then makes them have less vacation or makes them work harder.

WHY is that what we want? Well, because THAT'S how LIFE goes. Prices go up (for everything, not just airline tickets) and not getting a raise means you lose purchasing power. It is why United, American, Delta, Jet Blue, Alaska, Hawaiian and EVEN SPIRIT mgt gave their pilots raises. For us, our mgt is different. They do not want to give us a raise. They may say it in public, but during negotiations they act differently. The last airline to strike was Spirit and it was with this SAME MGT GROUP. We will need to strike too. That will be the only way we get the maximum that is allowed. Prepare yourself. Anything short of a strike and we didn't get everything we could.

Quit acting like you don't understand life. Stop asking stupid questions about why we should get more w/o giving up something. Cease and desist w/ the "well, why don't you just leave" crap. You sound like you have no idea how life or this industry works.

 

Your starting to make more sense. This management has delay tactics going back decades. Here’s just a sample from last round. So and so can’t make the meeting as they have mil leave even though thier not really involved in negotiations. We need to reschedule. You’ve been training displaced and will need to call crew scheduling after the meeting for potential reassignment as that was carved out last round but existed at the time.

Alpa has to pay for all drops to negotiate. That one went to arbitration and the arbitrator agreed. I found that one from the phx session amusing as thier still trying make alpa seem as if thier demanding drops to negotiate even though they actually offered once the session was almost over. Had they actually wanted to accomplish something that would have been done start of day 1. I could go on and on.

This is what the union is dealing with. The union is showing up prepared to get something done and management is showing up with delay tactics.

 

Helluva thesis, Sherlock. But, it’s not hard to say no, stall negotiations, and give below industry standard counter proposals.

I bet you thought you were soooo smart when that lightbulb went on in your head.

 

Contract 2030. With an endless supply of 1500hr wonder pilots, they will never run low on apps. Plenty of supply means no demand to negotiate. The game is rigged.