Frontier Hiring.
11-16-2016 | 09:02 PM
#6061
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,748
Likes: 98
From: 1900D CA
It just hasn't been a priority. When the company was bankrupt and under Republic, they just didn't invest in the change. The new management doesn't care at all, so we will keep doing what we've been doing. That's not a bad thing. I think our training dept is very good. Our new hire pass rate is very good. I don't believe that AQP is necessarily any better. I've spoken with the guy at the FAA who is in charge of AQP, and he didn't seem to think it's really any better than the way Frontier does it.
Anyone know how much less training Spirit provides than us? 5 FTD and 9 sims
Anyone know how much less training Spirit provides than us? 5 FTD and 9 sims
11-16-2016 | 09:21 PM
#6062
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 767
Likes: 0
From: KCCO
It just hasn't been a priority. When the company was bankrupt and under Republic, they just didn't invest in the change. The new management doesn't care at all, so we will keep doing what we've been doing. That's not a bad thing. I think our training dept is very good. Our new hire pass rate is very good. I don't believe that AQP is necessarily any better. I've spoken with the guy at the FAA who is in charge of AQP, and he didn't seem to think it's really any better than the way Frontier does it.
Anyone know how much less training Spirit provides than us? 5 FTD and 9 sims
Anyone know how much less training Spirit provides than us? 5 FTD and 9 sims
Having done both the "Old school" PC/PT training and AQP, I'll state unequivocally that AQP is hands down a better method of training and I hope we make the effort to switch sooner rather than later. Even on my type rides I felt much less pressure and that I was still learning as much as I was being checked.
That said, our training is "gentlemanly" as others have said. Put in the effort and barring extraneous circumstances you'll do fine and be prepared for ioe.
11-16-2016 | 09:27 PM
#6063
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 195
Likes: 6
From: Airbus CA
AQP = FAR FAR inferior to rolling PT/PC's the way we do it here! AQP is simply a 2 day check ride with day 1 a maneuvers validation "PC" and then the second day a "Loft Scenario" with a couple of problems to deal with. We see "Loft Scenario" stuff every day out on the line, so why waste sim time on it? F9's PT is basically a more laid back PC on day one, and then day 2 you get to practice all kinds of different unusual emergencies that you don't normally see during a standard "canned" PC. All in a non jeopardy environment, where if it doesn't go well, you can pause the sim, talk about it, and try it again! There's also usually time left over, where you practice or see anything that you'd like! I have worked for an AQP airline in the past, and also another airline that had rolling PT/PC's. In my experience, the most valuable time I have spent in the sim were during the PT's. I actually walk out of PT's feeling more confident about flying the plane! I hope we never go AQP, while it's better then straight PC's, They're nowhere near as useful as PT's!
11-16-2016 | 10:45 PM
#6064
Banned
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 0
From: doggy style
I did call them. I was told that I "Did not meet all the requirements to be a Frontier crew member". She said she could not get any more specific then that.
I took the drug screen about 2 weeks prior to that. I doubt that was the issue.
I've read the PRIA. It all looks good.
I took the drug screen about 2 weeks prior to that. I doubt that was the issue.
I've read the PRIA. It all looks good.
-Applicant must not forge information, names or signatures.
Nice try slandering our hiring folks.
11-17-2016 | 05:28 AM
#6065
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: A320/CA
The program; well paced, informative, operationally based (meaning you don't have to know how to build the airplane, just fly it), a lot of sim time, and straight forward.
Great people; knowledgeable, great resources for information, and they have the attitude that if you are really trying, and struggling with something, they'll help get you through.
I've never gone through Spirit's initial training, but I understand it's much more of a 'sink or swim' ideology.
My .02.
11-17-2016 | 08:24 AM
#6066
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 629
Likes: 0
Perhaps not for you. But I have friends who work in the industry. It's not like other people don't know we are the lowest paid Airbus pilots in America. But, even if noone else knew, I also have a sense of worth given the lengths it has taken for me to get here. I know the value of the work I put in in the military and regionals and I know that I'm not being valued as I should be. As I mentioned, I anticipate better compensation. But until then, we are being undervalued and there really isn't any other way to describe it.
That's embarrasing. Both for me who is living through it daily AND for the company that continues to find new ways to insult me at the negotiating table. They don't care, because of course, they are making millions. But I do.
If you don't, cool. That's your opinion and I'll never criticize someone else who thinks differently. But, at the same time, I'm embarrased for you. To me, if you don't feel the slightest bit used then I don't really know what to say.
Again, I CHOSE to be here. I'm not whining. At the same time, I don't go around screaming to everyone I know that I work at Frontier...
That's just my $0.02.
That's embarrasing. Both for me who is living through it daily AND for the company that continues to find new ways to insult me at the negotiating table. They don't care, because of course, they are making millions. But I do.
If you don't, cool. That's your opinion and I'll never criticize someone else who thinks differently. But, at the same time, I'm embarrased for you. To me, if you don't feel the slightest bit used then I don't really know what to say.
Again, I CHOSE to be here. I'm not whining. At the same time, I don't go around screaming to everyone I know that I work at Frontier...
That's just my $0.02.
These contracts are cyclical business deals and negotiations. Nothing more, nothing less.
There's a new CBA on the horizon for F9. Then another groups will be less than ours. Then ours less than someone else's.
Same **** over and over. Take F9 out of the equation and replace it with whatever carrier you want and your contract will eventually be at the bottom. Just a few years ago Spirits was at the top for the A320 while a few legacies were not and they were also having their pensions wiped out. Were they embarrassed?
This career is a lifetime of continuing to negotiate for more. I'm not ridiculing or criticizing you. Just trying to bring some positivity to the table. This is a great, deserving pilot group. Our new contract is coming. There's boxes that have to be checked along the way.
Nevertheless our day is coming.
11-17-2016 | 09:02 AM
#6067
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: BE90 Left
11-17-2016 | 09:11 AM
#6068
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 0
I appreciate your $0.02.
These contracts are cyclical business deals and negotiations. Nothing more, nothing less.
There's a new CBA on the horizon for F9. Then another groups will be less than ours. Then ours less than someone else's.
Same **** over and over. Take F9 out of the equation and replace it with whatever carrier you want and your contract will eventually be at the bottom. Just a few years ago Spirits was at the top for the A320 while a few legacies were not and they were also having their pensions wiped out. Were they embarrassed?
This career is a lifetime of continuing to negotiate for more. I'm not ridiculing or criticizing you. Just trying to bring some positivity to the table. This is a great, deserving pilot group. Our new contract is coming. There's boxes that have to be checked along the way.
Nevertheless our day is coming.
These contracts are cyclical business deals and negotiations. Nothing more, nothing less.
There's a new CBA on the horizon for F9. Then another groups will be less than ours. Then ours less than someone else's.
Same **** over and over. Take F9 out of the equation and replace it with whatever carrier you want and your contract will eventually be at the bottom. Just a few years ago Spirits was at the top for the A320 while a few legacies were not and they were also having their pensions wiped out. Were they embarrassed?
This career is a lifetime of continuing to negotiate for more. I'm not ridiculing or criticizing you. Just trying to bring some positivity to the table. This is a great, deserving pilot group. Our new contract is coming. There's boxes that have to be checked along the way.
Nevertheless our day is coming.
You posted an article by Fortune a few pages back that intrigued me. Apparently it is possible to kill (or at least maim) the golden goose with higher end labor friendly contracts. The article very directly made the case that Southwest would lose it's edge as an LCC because of increased labor costs.
If I had my wishes we would have an industry leading contract, as in, when they send out a new graph, the top line IS in forest green. But my question is whether this isn't only unrealistic, but also unwise? If you believe the Fortune article...
I've felt frustrated at times that our first ask was too low. But I'm beginning to think there's a reason I'm just a rank-and-file pilot.
I guess my question to the forum is this: Does the idea of harming the golden goose actually play a role in any NC's strategy? Or is it their job to shoot for the moon no matter what? Wouldn't this Fortune article strike a measure of dread into a SW pilot's understandably euphoric heart?
Do you guys get what I'm saying/asking?
11-17-2016 | 10:46 AM
#6069
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
From: Prone Supported
Does the idea of harming the golden goose actually play a role in any NC's strategy? Or is it their job to shoot for the moon no matter what? Wouldn't this Fortune article strike a measure of dread into a SW pilot's understandably euphoric heart?
Do you guys get what I'm saying/asking?
Do you guys get what I'm saying/asking?
But from what I can see...
1) A core requirement to being released is that our ask does not put the company at a competitive disadvantage.
2) I don't think that the NC believes we will obtain our goal of a good contract without a strike.
What I extrapolate from these two observations is that our ask is extremely reasonable so that there will be no delay in being released. Perhaps, (total speculation here) the NC believes that good now is better than great in 3-4 years. We currently must exit our existing concessionary contract as expeditiously as possible. We can fight for a leading contract is 4-5 years.
Again, this is speculation, and it is based off the fact that I can not make sense of the strategy any other way. Maybe someone with hard facts can chime in, because all I have is speculation.
11-17-2016 | 01:31 PM
#6070
Banned
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,655
Likes: 0
From: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Competitive advantage as compared to what/who. Think of the competitive advantage if you just took a 25% haircut in compensation. They could boost pay for the other employees and still be cheaper than all others.
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