Notices
Hangar Talk For non-aviation-related discussion and aviation threads that don't belong elsewhere

Tool of the day

Old 05-25-2015, 02:26 PM
  #6351  
Gets Weekends Off
 
USMCFDX's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,804
Default

Originally Posted by cardiomd View Post
Yes. Somehow they convinced FAA that deployment of chute is a "spin recovery process."

According to the SR-22 Pilot's Operating Handbook:

"The SR22 is not approved for spins, and has not been tested or certified for spin recovery characteristics. The only approved and demonstrated method of spin recovery is activation of the Cirrus Airframe Parachute System (See CAPS Deployment, this section). Because of this, if the aircraft 'departs controlled flight,' the CAPS must be deployed.
...
Do not waste time and altitude trying to recover from a spiral/ spin before activating CAPS."

Not exactly a pilot's plane. It is viewed as a form of luxury transport for the well-heeled, as was the Bonanza in the 1960's. Fatal accident rate significantly higher than average. I'm not saying it can't be safely flown in the right fashion, but it should be flown in such a fashion - minimizing maneuvering and risk, and I wouldn't want to fly one slowly.
We get it doc you hate the Cirrus. Again show us your data that it has a significantly higher fatality rate. I already showed you and provided you a link that your statement is false.

If you keep making the same statement over and over it does not make it any more true.
USMCFDX is offline  
Old 05-25-2015, 02:38 PM
  #6352  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Petting Zoo
Posts: 2,031
Default

[QUOTE=cardiomd;188857

Not exactly a pilot's plane. It is viewed as a form of luxury transport for the well-heeled, as was the Bonanza in the 1960's. Fatal accident rate significantly higher than average. I'm not saying it can't be safely flown in the right fashion, but it should be flown in such a fashion - minimizing maneuvering and risk, and I wouldn't want to fly one slowly.[/QUOTE]


Not sure what you are talking about, have you flown one? For first couple years it didnt a have a great safety record--but it wasnt bad either. About average for GA as I recall. Couple years ago company double downed on safety training and it apparently paid off. You seem to be ignoring the stats already posted. Love the plane or hate it, but you cant say its unsafe.

We flew zero time students in the 20, through solo. They did just fine.

I wouldnt want to spin one, so I didnt. Thats how I minimized risk.
Sputnik is offline  
Old 05-25-2015, 02:50 PM
  #6353  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,635
Default

Originally Posted by USMCFDX View Post
We get it doc you hate the Cirrus. Again show us your data that it has a significantly higher fatality rate. I already showed you and provided you a link that your statement is false.

If you keep making the same statement over and over it does not make it any more true.
It's a little too much airplane for relatively newbies.


What happened to this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAWy9mjnrYM

Yikes!
ShyGuy is offline  
Old 05-25-2015, 02:55 PM
  #6354  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,635
Default

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0lWsqAwYwY

Poor family. He shoulda just deployed the chute while they were straight/level.
ShyGuy is offline  
Old 05-25-2015, 04:49 PM
  #6355  
Looking for a laugh
 
Justdoinmyjob's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,099
Default

Originally Posted by F15Cricket View Post
but merely wears a USAFA lanyard (for Justdoingmyjob, that is a military academy ).
Justdoinmyjob is offline  
Old 05-26-2015, 05:01 AM
  #6356  
Tier 3 Candidate
 
el jefe's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Canadair Gosh
Posts: 609
Default

The PSA pilot leaving the CLT E gates around 4:30pm yesterday.

I didn't catch how it started but I just assume the ramp was congested, and ramp control pushed a plane that blocked PSA from getting out. I think ramp said "sorry", but PSA took it a big step further by telling ramp they didn't know how to do their job, twice! It went something like this, unfortunately LiveATC doesn't record ramp frequencies because that would be audio gold.

PSA-"(bla bla bla) You blocked us with that plane"
Ramp-"Sorry about that (excuse)"
PSA-"...You just dont know how to do your job"
Ramp-"Say again?"
PSA- "Youre not doing your job right"
Ramp-"Well I can give you the ramp managers phone number and you can talk it out with them"
PSA-"Sorry we gotta go (said something snarky)"

Are you that ******* dumb that they aren't going to track you down and make you explain yourself? You're not anonymous calling on guard or on the internet, they know your exact flight number!

I know CLT has some real juvenile radio operators, but this took the cake.
el jefe is offline  
Old 05-26-2015, 05:35 AM
  #6357  
Gets Weekends Off
 
cardiomd's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 974
Default

Originally Posted by USMCFDX View Post
We get it doc you hate the Cirrus. Again show us your data that it has a significantly higher fatality rate. I already showed you and provided you a link that your statement is false.

If you keep making the same statement over and over it does not make it any more true.
I don't hate Cirrus at all. I want them to succeed, and love their price point where again a non-super-rich type person can almost afford a nice plane. I nearly bought one, but hate the spring-loaded sidestick feel, which I feel is responsible for many, many crashes like the Melborne one ShyGuy lists below.

Since you seem too nonmotivated to read non-Cirrus propaganda statistics, here is a sample analysis:

Steve Wilson Blog - Dead Pilots Don?t Lie

There are some issues "the other way" with this analysis, but I'm more concerned with the type of accidents which you can read on the NTSB, which happen with alarming frequency.

Here is a take that it is actually often high time pilots:

AOPA Pilot Blog: Reporting Points Blog Archive Surprising Cirrus Stats

I like to "know" how much performance I can get out of my plane. If I have to do a steep bank into an accelerated stall, I can feel by the flight controls and the buffeting exactly how my plane will react, it talks to me before I will ever spin. The Cirrus really doesn't. I didn't really like flying the plane other than "Point A to Point B on auto most of the way" which is fine, but not the plane for me, nor for any of the numerous people who crashed.

I could fly it completely fine treating it like an airliner (like the person above said "never spin.") But for example I like to make short approach often just for fun, which I would never even consider doing in a Cirrus.

Dick Collins has a great little essay:

What's wrong with Cirrus pilots? - Air Facts Journal

And Phillip Greenspun also nails it:

Cirrus Accident Investigation

Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
It's a little too much airplane for relatively newbies.


What happened to this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAWy9mjnrYM

Yikes!
Yes, unfortunately all to common Cirrus accident. You can blame the pilot (and yes, he was at fault) but the control setup and characteristics of the airfoil make it easier to do this kind of thing. As I said above if I had a Cirrus I wouldn't even make short approach - no G's in the pattern as the wing will suddenly stall and you will have little warning to the airflow separation. It is NOT a plane for maneuvering.

Some nonprofessionals can fly twins with acceptable safety, but I am perfectly fine knowing that a twin is not a good plane for me despite flying extremely often.

Some people that buy it are getting an emotional response to any criticism which I guess is understandable if they put a large amount of time / $$$ into the plane.
cardiomd is offline  
Old 05-26-2015, 06:08 AM
  #6358  
Runs with scissors
 
Timbo's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,538
Default

No matter what airplane you buy, step one should be to take it out with an experienced (in type) Instructor and learn how to fly it.

I'm not talking about just doing pattern work, I'm talking about extensive air work; slow flight, steep turns, stall recoveries, upset recoveries, etc. all done at a safe altitude of course.

And if the weather is 'marginal' and you have no instrument time, or very little, or have your ticket but haven't flown any actual IFR in a while, bring an IP with you there too!

Just ask Jon Jon Kennedy what can happen if you don't.
Timbo is offline  
Old 05-26-2015, 06:11 AM
  #6359  
Gets Weekends Off
 
USMCFDX's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,804
Default

Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
It's a little too much airplane for relatively newbies.


What happened to this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAWy9mjnrYM

Yikes!
I don't know I'm not an NTSB investigator. The Doc appears to be ask him.
USMCFDX is offline  
Old 05-26-2015, 06:41 AM
  #6360  
Otto
 
MikeF16's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Turkish Pile Driver
Posts: 1,806
Default

The JFK ground controller last night. He decided to teach all us dumb pilots a lesson about stepping on radio calls and just stopped replying to anybody, thereby making the traffic jam worse than before as more and more aircraft got on freq to ask for taxi clearance. 2nd trip in a row I've had to listen to this guy's power trip while trying to get from the gate to the runway.
MikeF16 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Elvis90
Military
2
11-11-2010 09:25 AM
meloveboeing
Regional
5
10-02-2010 07:47 AM
kc135driver
United
119
08-24-2010 08:30 AM
exerauflyboy5
Flight Schools and Training
15
02-18-2009 08:29 PM
Busdriver
JetBlue
70
01-16-2006 10:32 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread