Bluedriver

What did I say (not how I said it) that you disagree with?

To the rest of you, I think things will eventually work out fine for us. Never said otherwise so don't put words in my mouth or suggest I said otherwise.

For Southerner, I did listen, I always do. Then I responded to his assertions that I found illogical.

I'm still waiting for what JB offers right now that makes up for our peer bottom pay and other contractual deficiencies?

All I here is hope, nothing analytical whatsoever.

We all want things to work out very well here. All of us. But we have differences in how soon that will happen and how we individually tolerate having our appropriate compensation and work rules withheld.

I have a great life and am generally a happy and positive person. But doesn't mean I would be the guy in prison smiling during a rear end hijack and say "oh well it will be over eventually".

That is all.

Standing by for the hope and optimism speech again.

say again

It's your overall demeanor towards people that have a different outlook than you. It's not worth having a "discussion", whether one agrees or, God forbid, disagrees with you. Not just on this thread, but every other one.

How about a doom and gloom speech? You'd rather that? Rhetorical question BTW. I'm probably not gonna answer you anyway.

Blackhawk

This thread.

Bluedriver

Fair enough. But if no one can answer my question about how JB makes up for the fact that we have peer worst pay rates what is there to actually disagree about?

My delivery?

I do get it. When I was hired here 6+ years ago there were several guys that were very negative about JB on this site. I always understood their point but thought they were being overly negative so I pushed back with hundreds of posts that sound more like yours and Southerners and Payne's. Joe remembers I think. Yeah, I know, *the irony*.

Southerner

I get it. You feel betrayed. You feel that you got duped, so you feel the need to be crazy negative now. Understood.

From my point of view, which admittedly is not the same as many of you, we are in a good place now. ALPA is here. Negotiations are in end stages, meaning, IMHO we are less than a year from a CBA. (I think we will have something to read in Q1 or Q2, but that’s aggressive.)

Also, it’s a good place to work. We aren’t Allegiant. We aren’t Spirit. We aren’t Frontier. We are head and shoulders above them in many ways.

We aren’t a legacy either. I came here BECAUSE we aren’t Delta. I have zero interest in going there, despite their CBA. My motivation is not money or benefits or retirement. For me the most important thing is enjoying my job and the people that I work with. I really think that is our disconnect and why we feel differently. While I want a leading CBA, it is simply less important to me than keeping our “JetBlueness.”

If you went to SouthWest in 1998 it was NOT the place to be, yet if you had gone there then, career-earning wise you would be in the lead. I suspect similar will happen here. Just hunker down, and wait for the CBA. There are worse places to be. Far worse. Frankly, from my point of view, Delta is worse than here, but that’s because we place value on different things. BUT the point is, if you just hang on and be patient, I think YOU and I can both be happy here. You’ll get the pay etc. I’ll keep the job satisfaction. We both win.

But I can definitely say this. If you truly believe any other airline is better, and that it is hopeless here, you should leave. Why would you stay somewhere that you are miserable? I mean that in the best possible way.

pilotpayne

Man do you have that right.

pilotpayne

Oh I remember still have the PMs and watched you on bluepilots.
I get your point and I do agree with you on some points as you know.

Bluedriver

I understand you want a good work atmosphere. I do as well. However, our superior profit margins fully justify a contract on par with the big 4. Period. So we should never have to choose between the two.

I would leave but seniority, longevity and QOL are not portable as you well know. And I am hopeful that we COULD have a great career here. But some very big things need to change.

Bluedriver

No Joe, he doesn't have that right. It's no different than you guys wanting to shut down my negative speech/posts. I may be more aggressive about it, but it's easier to be aggressive when you have hard data points like pay rates and retirement contribution rates to point to. You guys push back very repeatedly and regularly with your optimism that things will get better.

You all seek confirmation bias that reinforces your positive views, which basically hinge on the belief in a better future. Pretending you guys are so different is laughable. You just take the opposite side of the same coin.

Can't wait until this is all behind us.

Southerner

I disagree. The only portion of your actual message that I disagree with is that it is “horrible here” and that people should avoid even applying to come here. That’s a matter of opinion for you, and it could have real negative impacts on someone if they chose to stay at a regional rather than come here. I don’t like the extreme negativity because I think it is an overreaction to the state of affairs here, but you are entitled to be that way.

The ONLY reason that I post to counter your comments on here is so that other people who aren’t pilots here can see that your voice isn’t the only voice. If those of us who disagree remain silent, your voice becomes the only one, and since those guys aren’t actually here, they think you’re actually the majority when you most definitely are not.

When I went back to the line I half expected to hear the same sentiments that you spout on here because it is true that an instructor doesn’t get a real picture of the line flying just round trips to Nassau from Orlando. But my experience has been instead that most FOs are very thoughtful about the conditions here, and agree more with Payne, myself, and JTrain. They see the areas that need improvement, and are cautiously optimistic that we will have a CBA within a year.

I flew with an FO who is from Venezuela, and his quote I thought was perfect. “The Pilots who are super negative here have lost perspective.” I agree with him. It is possible to want to fix the areas that need to be fixed, yet maintain a love of this company. You, me, Payne, and most others are truly more invested in this company than any executive. So I want us to succeed. We can’t succeed without a CBA, if for no other reason than pilot acquisition and retention.

I can say that if things don’t start change in 2018, people will likely start getting more negative. But it isn’t there yet, in my experience. I’ve only flown with a single FO who was super negative, and it was his first trip off of IOE. He had a good friend who agreed with you, and had filled the poor guy full of vitriol. Then he got wrapped up into an IROP, and rather than understand that IROPS at all Airlines are challenging (because he’s military and hasn’t seen another airline run) he immediately went hyper negative. (Because it confirmed his biases.) His buddy has done him a disservice. Attitudes are contagious, and that poor guy was miserable. It was sad to see, honestly.

Good luck man. I hope that a CBA makes you happy, though in my experience happiness comes from within.