While Jetblue Stagnates....
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
5.14% Slightly over the 3-5% I stated earlier. Problem is it changes with the wind. We defer planes today, then pick up extras down the line. If you recall a few year back when we first deferred 2018 was only supposed to have about 4 deliveries, maybe 6 I can't remember now. were getting 10 now. A few years ago we found 4 extras we weren't supposed to get. some years were 20 others were 5, why not smooth it out.
SEC-Show
2018 delivery schedule is on page three of the investor update. it's about 1/3 the way down the file.
I know what stagnation is... it was 2008-2009, I spent that time in BOS as 2002/2007 pilots. It was super cool in 2010 I think we hired like 30.
Those times were great. I was especially excited to know how lucky I was to be here, and how I should have been furloughed so some senior guy could continue making his 140hrs/month. So yea, it's subjective.
This is the problem with the "exodus" argument right now. It just isn't.
will it? I just don't know.
SEC-Show
2018 delivery schedule is on page three of the investor update. it's about 1/3 the way down the file.
I know what stagnation is... it was 2008-2009, I spent that time in BOS as 2002/2007 pilots. It was super cool in 2010 I think we hired like 30.
Those times were great. I was especially excited to know how lucky I was to be here, and how I should have been furloughed so some senior guy could continue making his 140hrs/month. So yea, it's subjective.
This is the problem with the "exodus" argument right now. It just isn't.
will it? I just don't know.
You got all of that right (but you knew that)
#82
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
I didn't say I was flew the space shuttle, but guys less qualified than me have been getting the call. By stellar I mean I check all the boxes and have no red flags. My point wasnt to toot my own horn, just to say, again, that our low attrition is likely due to a lack of job offers and not to this dumpster fire #gettingbetter.
#83
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Ok not trying to start a war.
So if we got Deltas contract you are out and lack of movement is also an issue.
Why in the world did you apply here?
You had to know this going into it. Look if a Delta contract isn’t going to make you happy (it would cause a good chunk of movement) than you better keep those apps updated.
So if we got Deltas contract you are out and lack of movement is also an issue.
Why in the world did you apply here?
You had to know this going into it. Look if a Delta contract isn’t going to make you happy (it would cause a good chunk of movement) than you better keep those apps updated.
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
#86
#87
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,888
Barger used to tell Wall Street high single digit ASM growth. Then it was mid-to-high single digit. What is it for 2018, 3.5-5.5?
Slowing.
Pay wise, we used to get sorta spreadsheet peer average PLUS premium pay above 78 hours.
Now, 30+% behind our peers with no premium pay.
I'm sorry but this place has ABSOLUTELY gotten worse in my almost 7 years here.
Period.
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Posts: 3,150
#89
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,888
5.14% Slightly over the 3-5% I stated earlier. Problem is it changes with the wind. We defer planes today, then pick up extras down the line. If you recall a few year back when we first deferred 2018 was only supposed to have about 4 deliveries, maybe 6 I can't remember now. were getting 10 now. A few years ago we found 4 extras we weren't supposed to get. some years were 20 others were 5, why not smooth it out.
SEC-Show
2018 delivery schedule is on page three of the investor update. it's about 1/3 the way down the file.
I know what stagnation is... it was 2008-2009, I spent that time in BOS as 2002/2007 pilots. It was super cool in 2010 I think we hired like 30.
Those times were great. I was especially excited to know how lucky I was to be here, and how I should have been furloughed so some senior guy could continue making his 140hrs/month. So yea, it's subjective.
This is the problem with the "exodus" argument right now. It just isn't.
will it? I just don't know.
SEC-Show
2018 delivery schedule is on page three of the investor update. it's about 1/3 the way down the file.
I know what stagnation is... it was 2008-2009, I spent that time in BOS as 2002/2007 pilots. It was super cool in 2010 I think we hired like 30.
Those times were great. I was especially excited to know how lucky I was to be here, and how I should have been furloughed so some senior guy could continue making his 140hrs/month. So yea, it's subjective.
This is the problem with the "exodus" argument right now. It just isn't.
will it? I just don't know.
Stagnation is subjective. Yes, literally it means what you said. Some of us consider us to be stagnant when our seniority movement at this "GROWTH" airline falls well behind that at those "failed model" old crusty legacies.
We've already established our growth is slowing. Lower ASM forecasts, fewer deliveries and/or same number of deliveries added to an ever larger fleet count base each year, seniority list growing by the same number of pilots even though the list is larger (lower percentage growth), etc ... Our growth is slowing, yet we have no retirements. That, to some of us, is stagnating. You are correct, not LITERALLY.
As an example, if you are 50% up our seniority list, and we add 180 pilots to the bottom of our seniority list as planned, you don't move up 5%, you move up 2.5%. At a "growth" airline. Our 13 or so retirements this year are statistically irrelevant.
Now United is forecasting ASM growth for the next 3 years higher than we are, and because of their "scope choke", it will primarily be mainline growth. In addition, they have hundreds of retirements that come off the top of the list, so if 7% of the list retires, you move up 7% PLUS growth. And they have a great contract!
Delta has similar numbers. They don't forecast quite as much ASM growth, but because they are actively"upgauging" they are growing the mainline seniority list much faster than their ASM forecast suggests. They are hiring for mainline growth and significant retirements. Plus a great contract.
I know you know all this. And I know we agree, these days, on quite a lot. So understand that some of us believe we are stagnating relative to prior seniority PERCENTAGE movement and relative to our "failed model" peers.
In the end, until this contract is settled and the company stops withholding 30% of my compensation, retirement and QOL, I will not lift one tiny finger on a keyboard to "correct the record" about our pay, benefits or career progression.
JB can defend it's own record, we shouldn't be doing their work for them right now. My opinion, of course.
#90
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,888
Did he Joe? Or did he forget and did you forget that we were previously scheduled to have 15 deliveries in 2018? Did you forget or did you not want to point that out for some other reason in your zeal to support a moderate post?
Look at our 2013 10k report. We were supposed to get 15 Airbus deliveries per year between 2015(I think) and 2019.
Look at our 2013 10k report. We were supposed to get 15 Airbus deliveries per year between 2015(I think) and 2019.
Last edited by Bluedriver; 02-07-2018 at 06:07 AM.
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