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05-21-2018 | 07:42 AM

#321

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BunkerF16

At this point, I think this is the best possible outcome for JB pilots in the short, but more importantly, the long run.

JB's ATM is over.

We put an HR chick at the head of running a Fortune 500 company. Hmmmm.....I wonder why we would do that......is it because she has experience running an airline, or do her talents/background lend themselves towards a different outcome.....

Yes... every aspect of your job will be a lawyeristic trap enforced by the HR gestapo.

Watch your back.
Say as little as possible to anyone.
If a non-pilot employee decides to escalate anything with you (e.g. not cleaning), keep walking and say nothing.
Never be behind closed doors with members of the opposite sex (or the same sex, or whatever they think they are).
If you get called in, always walk in with a lawyer (not just a trained ALPA rep).
If you get called, reschedule to have a teleconference with a lawyer involved.
Resist any contract that excludes language limiting HR's role in pilot affairs (yes, this is possible in a contract despite what they naysayers say). A team of ALPA pilots/lawyers should be the investigative team BUT the only authority should be the civil court process. Otherwise you must be protected until the law proves otherwise. Too many false accusations or exaggerations going around at BJ.

Her role will be to use all contractual language and company policy to keep you pacified, subservient, and in line with whatever they want.

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

05-21-2018 | 07:44 AM

#322

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Scope: go to JetBlue.com and book a flight to Lisbon or Dublin.

Now try that on Southwest.com

If the full language TA changes that, I'll eat a Delta pilots hat.

Pay and days off are a function of pay rate x credit hours per day.

Pay rate: starts roughly 3% below SW captain rates. FO rates are even worse. Gap widens from that as our 2% raise is less than SW COLA.

Then there is the 25% of our pilots who fly the E90. Way below small mainline narrowbody rates. Way below. E95 should pay with C100 and 717. Not even close.

Credit per day: ours will now average 5ish. SW historically averages more than that.

I guess we will see though...

And if it doesn't say what you want, vote NO.

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

05-21-2018 | 07:54 AM

#323

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatNavy

Hi Cindy. SWA has better scope than JB under this AIP. SWA has more days off than we will have under this AIP. SWA has better trip trading/premium opportunities than this AIP provides (we'll see with the final language, but I don't think any amount of language will prove that wrong). SWA has much better profit sharing. Furthermore, SWA negotiated their current contract before the legacies got their new contracts in place and at the beginning of this upswing in the industry. SWA had theirs out to vote (or about to send to vote), then Delta got their TA2 with much better rates, and SWA didn't really have the time to bring the contract back to renegotiate since they'd already agreed on it. Then of course UAL had a snap up clause to DAL, and AA offered (outside of section 6 negotiations) to basically match DAL/UAL to be competitive. Point of all that? If SWA's negotiations had taken 6-12 months longer, their rates would likely be the same as the legacies. Furthermore, they have 3% raises each year in place, and will basically be 3% ahead of JB at DOS, then will continually gain a percent each year over JB. And I'll bet you a hundo that when they go back to the negotiating table, they come out with legacy NB equivalent rates. And even now, if you compare days off and W2s, most SWA guys do as well as NB legacy guys depending on how much they tweak their schedules. If this passes, I'll bet you another hundo that the average 12+ year JB 320 CA gets fewer days off and less pay than the average 12+ year SWA CA, from now until the contracts end. Did SWA sell scope to get there? Didn't think so.

So, no, we don't need to sell scope in order to get legacy rates...that's a fallacy. Is this proposed scope better than legacy scope? Yeah, it is. And that's worth something. But we are still more profitable than legacies, and the company can afford to pay market rate airbus rates commensurate with AA/DL/UAL/SWA, as well as market rate CS100/300 and EMB rates, all with 3% annual raises, market rate profit sharing, etc. Sure, the totality of the AIP/TA/CBA is what matters...but when it comes to very clear items like rates/raises/PS, we come in about last of what I consider our peers, and only get worse as they all get 3-4% raises and all open negotiations before we do.

If this passes, at least its a contract, and at least it's a start better than the PEA/FSM/company document that can change on a whim. Is it worth leaving money on the table trying to renegotiate for a little more? Hard to say. On principle, I wouldn't vote yes to just these bullet points and firmly believe we are leaving money on the table. On money alone, that 2% should be 3-4% with as low as our proposed rates are, rates should have been a little higher across the board at DOS, and the SB and PS is a joke. In reality though, I'm not sure how I will vote yet.

I have many SWA pilot friends. One of the common attributes is they universally respect themselves and their profession. They fight for respect/pay, unlike BJ pilots. They see negotiations as a business transaction and they seem to have a better grasp of what CAN be done versus what they are being told is "practical". I keep hearing arguments from the BJ dinosaurs that BJ can't afford it, they want to be employed in 5 years, yadda yadda. It's all based on false assumptions (and myopic self preservation). BJ is a cash cow and the people at the top are throwing money left and right at other things instead of on employees. Just look at all the shareholder reports and tax documents filed with the government. Based on all the empirical evidence I can find, there is no reason why those salaries can't far exceed SWA's rates and be within the average +/-2% of DL and UA and AA. All their work rules can also be inherited, and then some. The problem is that BJ pilots have such low expectations and standards from a lifetime of being beaten down, furloughed, fired, controlled, and being defeated, that they accept all the false arguments that they can't get better than this substandard AIP. Let's see the final contract language, then rip it to pieces.

A SWA Captain once told me "you should never be ashamed of fighting for what you are worth".

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

05-21-2018 | 07:59 AM

#324

GuppyPuppy

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Feb 2006

Posts: 760

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From: JetRight, JetLeft

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptCoolHand

I won’t disagree. But it’s not a buffet. You don’t get to pick one from each contract and boom we’re the best at everything. I wish we could. But we can’t.

Yup.

Gup

05-21-2018 | 08:12 AM

#325

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PowderFinger

LOL.

I believe our MEC was notified and there were meetings over the weekend.

Did the MEC get some kind of contract promising this?

If it's not a contract, it means nothing.

Otherwise, it can be assumed BJ is just putting out disinformation so that we pass a sub-standard contract faster. I'm sure Joanna was put in there to exploit legal weaknesses in the sub-standard contract.

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

05-21-2018 | 08:25 AM

#326

N311JB

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Joined: Jan 2017

Posts: 271

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bozo the pilot

Crew meals? Crew meals? I hope thats not actually one of your dings against this potential T/A.
If it is, how far up the list is it?

I'm just messing around this one. Kinda like how Vern brought the comb.

05-21-2018 | 08:33 AM

#327

N311JB

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Joined: Jan 2017

Posts: 271

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One thing about the scope, and don't get me wrong its about #1 on my list. But back when we were negotiating I had heard we had leverage because all B6 cares about is brand, once the brand is hurt we'll get somewhere Thats usually all we ever hear. I honestly think B6 mgmt has not interest in outsourcing our product. It's the one and last thing they can control. Me thinks that why we were offered industry leading. Just thinking outside the box. For instance could you ever imagine a SWA express airline?. The brand is too important. Just posting outloud