Originally Posted by seekingblue

your comments are well taken. However, the arbitrator will almost certainly rule in favor of the company. The only question is what we will get out of it and what protections, will be left intact.

As panpanpan said, ultimately it’s out of our hands…..

Originally Posted by SaintNick

we can still vote it down if it isn’t what we want.

Originally Posted by seekingblue

your comments are well taken. However, the arbitrator will almost certainly rule in favor of the company. The only question is what we will get out of it and what protections, will be left intact.

As panpanpan said, ultimately it’s out of our hands…..

Originally Posted by panpanpan

True, but considering how close the last vote was, all it will take is a marginal improvement and the company can get the 51% they need.

Originally Posted by SaintNick

IMO completely different situation compared to when that vote was.

Originally Posted by seekingblue

We are clearly a very divided pilot group (48/52%, I think) and I hope management doesn’t exploit that.

Clearly, the vocal half is on APC, but many of us and most of the people I fly with do see the value in the NEA. The bigger question is not if the NEA will stand or not. I do not see any arbitrator canceling it, under any circumstances, IMHO—they will find a remedy for us, the pilots, but would prefer if ALPA and the company worked it out on our own. The question becomes what can we negotiate to allow it to continue. I’d much rather come up with an agreeable solution with the company, than take our chances with an arbitrator. Those with arbitration experience will probably agree with this.

The question becomes, if the NEA is happening, regardless of our thoughts, hopes, and wishes— where is your line in the sand? Is it pay increases? Mandatory yearly block hour increases? Virtual bases? More QDL pay (kidding with that one- sort of).

just to sum up quickly. Just voting no, to say no doesn’t get us anywhere. It means we have no control and the arbitrator will do whatever she/he desires. I’d much rather vote on something concrete that helps us, as pilots than just saying “you decide” to someone without aviation experience who is just trying not to “rock the boat”

thoughts?
Input?
Am I looking at this the wrong way?

Originally Posted by Ted Striker

It would be nice if they published the “ask” to the association. What’s the harm in letting the association members know the ask? I doubt it changes the companies position at all.

Originally Posted by Bgood

Because folks would be sharing it all over the place. Forums like here, and other social media. Company would easily get an idea of what the ask is before they even meet with ALPA. Sheeeit we can't even stop talking about what would make us vote yes right now on the forum, and that's without seeing the ask.

On another note, I hate this idea/mindset of "hey this is what company wanna give us so let's take what we can get cause it's better than nothing". Smh so when do we say no? When do we actually ask for something substantial in return? And no, what was offered was not substantial so even if we lose arbitration, which I doubt, we lose nothing offered and still atleast keep our dignity of not just giving away stuff all willy nilly.

I don't think anyone, who voted No, thinks the NEA is bad for our growth, the devil is just in the details of LOA 13, And the details were unacceptable.

I share the same sentiment of others here that if we should lose arbitration and the company allowed to operate against our CBA agreement, that decision of the arbitrator will not just set a bad precedent here but on the whole industry and ALPA national should get involved and do something about it, lobby whoever needs to be lobbied if that's what it takes.

Originally Posted by Bgood

Because folks would be sharing it all over the place. Forums like here, and other social media. Company would easily get an idea of what the ask is before they even meet with ALPA. Sheeeit we can't even stop talking about what would make us vote yes right now on the forum, and that's without seeing the ask.

On another note, I hate this idea/mindset of "hey this is what company wanna give us so let's take what we can get cause it's better than nothing". Smh so when do we say no? When do we actually ask for something substantial in return? And no, what was offered was not substantial so even if we lose arbitration, which I doubt, we lose nothing offered and still atleast keep our dignity of not just giving away stuff all willy nilly.

I don't think anyone, who voted No, thinks the NEA is bad for our growth, the devil is just in the details of LOA 13, And the details were unacceptable.

I share the same sentiment of others here that if we should lose arbitration and the company allowed to operate against our CBA agreement, that decision of the arbitrator will not just set a bad precedent here but on the whole industry and ALPA national should get involved and do something about it, lobby whoever needs to be lobbied if that's what it takes.