JetBlue Latest and Greatest
06-06-2021, 12:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,187
Originally Posted by MainlineFlyer
If arbitration favors the company so much that they can just violate the contract at will, then the next CBA should do away with arbitration.
We gave away our right to sue in court, if this clear violation is upheld then we need to take our right to sue back. If our clearly written CBA isn't enforceable then it isn't worth anything.
We gave away our right to sue in court, if this clear violation is upheld then we need to take our right to sue back. If our clearly written CBA isn't enforceable then it isn't worth anything.
06-07-2021, 07:38 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by seekingblue
We are clearly a very divided pilot group (48/52%, I think) and I hope management doesn’t exploit that.
Clearly, the vocal half is on APC, but many of us and most of the people I fly with do see the value in the NEA. The bigger question is not if the NEA will stand or not. I do not see any arbitrator canceling it, under any circumstances, IMHO—they will find a remedy for us, the pilots, but would prefer if ALPA and the company worked it out on our own. The question becomes what can we negotiate to allow it to continue. I’d much rather come up with an agreeable solution with the company, than take our chances with an arbitrator. Those with arbitration experience will probably agree with this.
The question becomes, if the NEA is happening, regardless of our thoughts, hopes, and wishes— where is your line in the sand? Is it pay increases? Mandatory yearly block hour increases? Virtual bases? More QDL pay (kidding with that one- sort of).
just to sum up quickly. Just voting no, to say no doesn’t get us anywhere. It means we have no control and the arbitrator will do whatever she/he desires. I’d much rather vote on something concrete that helps us, as pilots than just saying “you decide” to someone without aviation experience who is just trying not to “rock the boat”
thoughts?
Input?
Am I looking at this the wrong way?
Clearly, the vocal half is on APC, but many of us and most of the people I fly with do see the value in the NEA. The bigger question is not if the NEA will stand or not. I do not see any arbitrator canceling it, under any circumstances, IMHO—they will find a remedy for us, the pilots, but would prefer if ALPA and the company worked it out on our own. The question becomes what can we negotiate to allow it to continue. I’d much rather come up with an agreeable solution with the company, than take our chances with an arbitrator. Those with arbitration experience will probably agree with this.
The question becomes, if the NEA is happening, regardless of our thoughts, hopes, and wishes— where is your line in the sand? Is it pay increases? Mandatory yearly block hour increases? Virtual bases? More QDL pay (kidding with that one- sort of).
just to sum up quickly. Just voting no, to say no doesn’t get us anywhere. It means we have no control and the arbitrator will do whatever she/he desires. I’d much rather vote on something concrete that helps us, as pilots than just saying “you decide” to someone without aviation experience who is just trying not to “rock the boat”
thoughts?
Input?
Am I looking at this the wrong way?
Your intentions to sow defeat in the hearts of anyone reading your post is exactly what Warren was trying to do when he said “If it gets voted down we are just going to do it anyway”. It’s insulting and untrue. Maybe you haven’t read the NEA or our scope language or you just don’t fully understand them. Let’s start by clearing some things up for the record.
1) The arbitrator simply determines what was meant when the contract was negotiated. His feelings of what is good or bad for the company or pilot group is irrelevant. He is not a judge. It’s pretty clear which way the ruling is going to go.
2) If the arbitrator rules in favor of the pilot group it doesn’t cancel the NEA. The NEA can go on while keeping our scope in tact. It will still help both companies to make a lot of money. Just not as much money as they could make.
3) I just want to make it clear that our scope and the NEA can both exist.
The pilot group is no longer as divided as you are claiming. A lot of the yes voters thought they were saving themselves or their friends from being furloughed. Some of them thought they were keeping themselves from being downgraded. I have talked to yes voters and every one of them is glad it didn’t pass in hindsight.
06-08-2021, 07:55 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Wounded Duck
I have talked to yes voters and every one of them is glad it didn’t pass in hindsight.
"Who are all these 'yes' voters?" everyone was asking after the CBA was voted on. When you steamroll people with an opinion, they aren't going to tell you what they really think. I voted yes because I wanted two years off (from which I would probably have never returned).
06-08-2021, 08:02 AM
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,310
Originally Posted by eatittom
Why do pilots say the "I've talked to X about X" thing so often and never learn? It's called preference falsification. I do it on every trip. Captain goes on rant --> "What do you think?" --> Say something captain agrees with.
"Who are all these 'yes' voters?" everyone was asking after the CBA was voted on. When you steamroll people with an opinion, they aren't going to tell you what they really think. I voted yes because I wanted two years off (from which I would probably have never returned).
"Who are all these 'yes' voters?" everyone was asking after the CBA was voted on. When you steamroll people with an opinion, they aren't going to tell you what they really think. I voted yes because I wanted two years off (from which I would probably have never returned).
06-08-2021, 08:57 AM
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by eatittom
Why do pilots say the "I've talked to X about X" thing so often and never learn? It's called preference falsification. I do it on every trip. Captain goes on rant --> "What do you think?" --> Say something captain agrees with.
"Who are all these 'yes' voters?" everyone was asking after the CBA was voted on. When you steamroll people with an opinion, they aren't going to tell you what they really think. I voted yes because I wanted two years off (from which I would probably have never returned).
"Who are all these 'yes' voters?" everyone was asking after the CBA was voted on. When you steamroll people with an opinion, they aren't going to tell you what they really think. I voted yes because I wanted two years off (from which I would probably have never returned).
Last edited by BeatNavy; 06-08-2021 at 09:33 AM.
06-08-2021, 09:14 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 977
Originally Posted by eatittom
Why do pilots say the "I've talked to X about X" thing so often and never learn? It's called preference falsification. I do it on every trip. Captain goes on rant --> "What do you think?" --> Say something captain agrees with.
"Who are all these 'yes' voters?" everyone was asking after the CBA was voted on. When you steamroll people with an opinion, they aren't going to tell you what they really think. I voted yes because I wanted two years off (from which I would probably have never returned).
"Who are all these 'yes' voters?" everyone was asking after the CBA was voted on. When you steamroll people with an opinion, they aren't going to tell you what they really think. I voted yes because I wanted two years off (from which I would probably have never returned).
06-08-2021, 01:02 PM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Roy Biggins
You were the exact people I was afraid would vote yes. I don’t begrudge you for doing so...fwiw
06-08-2021, 01:14 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 314
Originally Posted by eatittom
Sorry...I don't care about any of you. And despite all the "unity" talk, I'm not sure anyone cares about me either.
So many natural leaders hired in the early days...
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