Bgood

This sounds pretty fair imho.

Sludgefund

First deal with the current pairing construction debacle. Fix this mess before going into the weeds.

Bluedriver

Been tuned out for while. What are you talking about?

Excargodog

Management and union both ought to be capable of multitasking…

FLYBOYMATTHEW

Being locked into a base a year at a time is hot garbage, and has no place at a 8,000+ pilot combined airline with potentially 10 crew bases. Type and qual locks, I get it, but limiting vacancy bids to an annual event is a huge concession in flexibility and QOL, particularly for commuters that have no control over fluctuating frequency between cities. If one is willing to give up his annual bid vacation slots to switch bases, he should have that option more than once a year if the company is taking deliveries, hiring, and upgrading. Name another airline that size that only does annual pilot vacancy bids. It certainly isn't industry standard.

Bgood

We would have the option more than once a year if the result would be "lose vacation slot". That's how it was before, quarterly bid and lose vacation. Union was trying to protect vacation and company says "ok but then we need to switch from quarterly bid to annual bid for better staffing plans" (of course not in those words but it's the reason why it's where it's at today). Not saying I agree with that once a year bidding though. I think Bluedriver suggestion earlier in the thread is a happy medium.

goose15

I remember very well that another “benefit”, according to our Union, for the annual vs quarterly bids, was that it would “force” the Company to show their hands and plans for the entire coming year. I’m sure there is some truth to that, but in the end they will choose to do whatever they want and we are just along for the ride. If they need to change course, they have the option to do supplemental bids, but if we want to change courses, we might be locked for the entire duration of the award. It is my opinion that losing your awarded vacation is a small price to pay, if you decide to bid for something else.

Excargodog

Nonsense. Between now and the end of 2027 Spirit has orders for over 100 A320 series aircraft.



B6 has orders for about 80 more A 220s and at least 40 more 320 series aircraft. Granted, some of the B6 aircraft are E-190 and older 320 replacements and some of the NK aircraft will likely replace elderly 319s, but that is still a lot of growth. There WILL BE a lot of new positions opening up in a lot of (for B6) new bases. Every pilot slot that gets filled voluntarily is one more that doesn’t have to be filled by displacement which is far more costly to the company than running a bid.

Just letting people go where they want when they are in fact needed there anyway is the cheapest way to handle things. As far as vacations, so what? It’s a voluntary move. If the person wants it bad enough they can either take what is left this cycle at their new base or just take the money and wait for next year.

Bluedriver

I do think their should be better base trading options for those who are willing to lose their vacation slots.

But not all of us are so willing to go back to a system where any change you make loses your vacation. There should be a middle ground we can all find that gives pilots more flexibility while still keeping some of the protections some of us want.

The growth argument isn't completely valid, as even with the annual system bid the company forecasts it's growth and open positions for the following year and puts them up for bid. I much preferred quarterly bids to this annual bid, but didn't like that we gave up our vacation and had to pick from the left overs (crap) vacation periods when making a change.

At the same time, there isn't any reason base swaps should be this hard. Should be an option in FLICA to post a base trade and if someone takes it, boom. Move as often as you want.

Excargodog

I’d certainly agree to that. Nothing stupider than having two pilots - even newbie FOs - doing a transcontinental commute to sit reserve in the other guys base in a crashpad. And you know it’s going to happen with a larger airline with more widespread bases.