Heros Act Removes OCT 1st No Furlough Clause
05-25-2020, 01:45 PM
#31
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Posts: 5,160
Originally Posted by BKbigfish
There’s definitely more that a few. This is is an idea that has been kicked around on both sides of the aisle for quite some time. Alaska (a very conservative state) has had a form of UBI for decades with the PFD. This is one of the few issues that cuts directly across ideological and party lines.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...income/375600/
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...income/375600/
Name conservatives and quote them as endorsing UBI. This is the same kind of UBI article written by the left that twists conservative ideas into UBI. The Atlantic is a liberal rag, rated with a similar bias as CNN, WaPo, the New York Times, and NPR. https://libguides.lorainccc.edu/c.php?g=29395&p=183699
UBI doesn't cut across party lines. Polls show overwhelming support from Ds and a much lower support from Rs. Now, if you're suggesting that UBI eliminates all other social welfare programs, we can talk. And such a substitution will doom it UBI to failure.
05-25-2020, 03:32 PM
#34
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Posts: 234
Originally Posted by Grumpyaviator
Government controls means of production.
Government owns all assets
Government directs all distribution
Call it it UBI, its the definition of communism and has never worked. Government economists are not smarter than the free market.
PS. Wonder why Bernie, Warren, AOC and others don’t have tax plans other than some talking points when pressed on it? Under communism there are no taxes because there is no income. The government collects all revenues and distributes to the citizens.
Government owns all assets
Government directs all distribution
Call it it UBI, its the definition of communism and has never worked. Government economists are not smarter than the free market.
PS. Wonder why Bernie, Warren, AOC and others don’t have tax plans other than some talking points when pressed on it? Under communism there are no taxes because there is no income. The government collects all revenues and distributes to the citizens.
05-25-2020, 03:46 PM
#35
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Posts: 234
Originally Posted by Andy
You're calling the Alaska permanent fund UBI? That's a stretch.
Name conservatives and quote them as endorsing UBI. This is the same kind of UBI article written by the left that twists conservative ideas into UBI. The Atlantic is a liberal rag, rated with a similar bias as CNN, WaPo, the New York Times, and NPR. https://libguides.lorainccc.edu/c.php?g=29395&p=183699
UBI doesn't cut across party lines. Polls show overwhelming support from Ds and a much lower support from Rs. Now, if you're suggesting that UBI eliminates all other social welfare programs, we can talk. And such a substitution will doom it UBI to failure.
Name conservatives and quote them as endorsing UBI. This is the same kind of UBI article written by the left that twists conservative ideas into UBI. The Atlantic is a liberal rag, rated with a similar bias as CNN, WaPo, the New York Times, and NPR. https://libguides.lorainccc.edu/c.php?g=29395&p=183699
UBI doesn't cut across party lines. Polls show overwhelming support from Ds and a much lower support from Rs. Now, if you're suggesting that UBI eliminates all other social welfare programs, we can talk. And such a substitution will doom it UBI to failure.
The Alaska PFD is absolutely a form of UBI. They confiscate a portion of oil revenue and distribute it to every single citizen equally. That is literally the exact definition of UBI. Here’s a few prominent conservatives who have endorsed some form of UBI.
https://medium.com/basic-income/why-...s-da6e628f6070
“The proposal for a negative income tax is a proposal to help poor people by giving them money, which is what they need, rather than as now, by requiring them to come before a government official to tally all their assets and liabilities and be told that you may spend X dollars on rent, Y dollars on food, etc.”
-Milton Friedman
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ist-backs-ubi/
“But universal basic income (UBI) has its fans on the right as well, including no less than Charles Murray, the pioneering conservative scholar at the American Enterprise Institute who in 2016 called it “our only hope to deal with a coming labor market unlike any in human history” and said it “represents our best hope to revitalize American civil society.””
-Charles Murray
05-25-2020, 04:12 PM
#36
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Posts: 145
Originally Posted by Itsajob
The problem with the UBI is that each election cycle politicians will want to adjust it in an attempt to buy votes. There is also the issue of paying able bodied people regardless of any work performed. Another problem is that it provides little incentive to perform entry level jobs. We are seeing this now with the covid payment added to unemployment compensation. Employers are having trouble getting workers to come back since they make as much or more sitting on the couch collecting a check.
I’ll add. Whatever you opinion is on where the virus came from, how severe it is, or whether or not we unnecessarily shut down our economy, it is eye opening for all. If a contagion with a lethality of 100x this one were to come down the road, we out to have a system ready to avoid similar economic results. The F-35 program ain’t gonna save us.
Last edited by 305808; 05-25-2020 at 04:28 PM.
05-25-2020, 06:25 PM
#37
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Posts: 1,504
It’s not about rejecting ideas from one side or another immediately. It’s just that this idea has been proven wrong and we would rather not repeat such failures. I am sure there are ideas that will not gain traction based upon the proposing identity, but this particular one is historical based. Plenty of folks across the pond still alive who have lived it, just ask them.
05-28-2020, 07:16 AM
#38
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,615
Anyone remotely considering UBI as "a good idea" clearly never paid attention to history, or somehow skated through the water down version of it; obviously has zero clue about what communism is - they only know it's some big, scary concept the government was scaring people with until 1990. These same people have absolutely zero clue about "HUMAN" nature - note I didn't say American, Chinese, Brazilian... I said HUMAN, and we've got a very nice preview of it in some states where the Constitution was literally suspended because the governors said so "in the interest of 'public safety'." Power corrupts.
Now, let's also replace "public safety" with "common good." Oh, and throw in "fact-checkers" and shutting down what powers that be call "disinformation." Sounds awfully like things we've seen in the communist nations... This is how the Constitution and ergo America as we know it dies.
As the saying goes, the Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions.
Now, let's also replace "public safety" with "common good." Oh, and throw in "fact-checkers" and shutting down what powers that be call "disinformation." Sounds awfully like things we've seen in the communist nations... This is how the Constitution and ergo America as we know it dies.
As the saying goes, the Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions.
05-28-2020, 09:10 AM
#39
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Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
Anyone remotely considering UBI as "a good idea" clearly never paid attention to history, or somehow skated through the water down version of it; obviously has zero clue about what communism is - they only know it's some big, scary concept the government was scaring people with until 1990. These same people have absolutely zero clue about "HUMAN" nature - note I didn't say American, Chinese, Brazilian... I said HUMAN, and we've got a very nice preview of it in some states where the Constitution was literally suspended because the governors said so "in the interest of 'public safety'." Power corrupts.
Now, let's also replace "public safety" with "common good." Oh, and throw in "fact-checkers" and shutting down what powers that be call "disinformation." Sounds awfully like things we've seen in the communist nations... This is how the Constitution and ergo America as we know it dies.
As the saying goes, the Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions.
Now, let's also replace "public safety" with "common good." Oh, and throw in "fact-checkers" and shutting down what powers that be call "disinformation." Sounds awfully like things we've seen in the communist nations... This is how the Constitution and ergo America as we know it dies.
As the saying goes, the Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions.
05-28-2020, 01:24 PM
#40
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Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 217
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
Anyone remotely considering UBI as "a good idea" clearly never paid attention to history, or somehow skated through the water down version of it; obviously has zero clue about what communism is - they only know it's some big, scary concept the government was scaring people with until 1990. These same people have absolutely zero clue about "HUMAN" nature - note I didn't say American, Chinese, Brazilian... I said HUMAN, and we've got a very nice preview of it in some states where the Constitution was literally suspended because the governors said so "in the interest of 'public safety'." Power corrupts.
Now, let's also replace "public safety" with "common good." Oh, and throw in "fact-checkers" and shutting down what powers that be call "disinformation." Sounds awfully like things we've seen in the communist nations... This is how the Constitution and ergo America as we know it dies.
As the saying goes, the Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions.
Now, let's also replace "public safety" with "common good." Oh, and throw in "fact-checkers" and shutting down what powers that be call "disinformation." Sounds awfully like things we've seen in the communist nations... This is how the Constitution and ergo America as we know it dies.
As the saying goes, the Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions.
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