United diversity.......
04-12-2021, 10:41 PM
#171
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 253
Originally Posted by detpilot
First, there is no "Black Pilots Association." There is a "Black Pilots of America," but I'm pretty sure that's not what you were talking about.
Please explain to me how OBAP and Women in Aviation conferences are still chock full of people with years of experience, PIC time, and clean records, who still haven't filled more than a couple of slots in most major classes. The facts just don't support your anger. But, you'll never see it.
The rest of your rant... Just... Wow. Best of luck to you. People who think like you are the reason these organizations are still needed.
Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
Please explain to me how OBAP and Women in Aviation conferences are still chock full of people with years of experience, PIC time, and clean records, who still haven't filled more than a couple of slots in most major classes. The facts just don't support your anger. But, you'll never see it.
The rest of your rant... Just... Wow. Best of luck to you. People who think like you are the reason these organizations are still needed.
Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
Sad part is you have no idea what you are talking about. If there is a room full of OBAP or WIA without jobs it is because they either don't meet the requirement or have already interviewed. Then again it could be because no one has been hiring for the last year. Unless of course you believe that they are actively being discriminated against because of their skin color or gender. Is that it? Do you believe that is happening? Are you trying to say that the airlines where the HR departments are filled with people who would walk over 30 white guys with 10,000 hours to find a Woman that would meet their bare minimums are not hiring women or minorities?
Is anyone that stupid to believe that is what is going on and that is why there are "conferences chock full of people with years of experience, PIC time, and clean records, who still haven't filled more than a couple of slots in most major classes."
Once again please explain to me how the BLACK pilots of America is striving for the inclusions of all races? You can't do that either without a ton of mental gymnastics so it is easier to just call it a rant and ignore what is right in front of your face.
While you are at it please explain to my how deciding on who gets the interview based on sex and skin color isn't discrimination?
04-12-2021, 11:49 PM
#172
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Fetal in the hub
Posts: 410
Originally Posted by Bluesideup1
It isn't anger it is just stating the hypocrisy. People like you think that women and minorities are incapable of getting their own job and need your help.
Sad part is you have no idea what you are talking about. If there is a room full of OBAP or WIA without jobs it is because they either don't meet the requirement or have already interviewed. Then again it could be because no one has been hiring for the last year. Unless of course you believe that they are actively being discriminated against because of their skin color or gender. Is that it? Do you believe that is happening? Are you trying to say that the airlines where the HR departments are filled with people who would walk over 30 white guys with 10,000 hours to find a Woman that would meet their bare minimums are not hiring women or minorities?
Is anyone that stupid to believe that is what is going on and that is why there are "conferences chock full of people with years of experience, PIC time, and clean records, who still haven't filled more than a couple of slots in most major classes."
Once again please explain to me how the BLACK pilots of America is striving for the inclusions of all races? You can't do that either without a ton of mental gymnastics so it is easier to just call it a rant and ignore what is right in front of your face.
While you are at it please explain to my how deciding on who gets the interview based on sex and skin color isn't discrimination?
Sad part is you have no idea what you are talking about. If there is a room full of OBAP or WIA without jobs it is because they either don't meet the requirement or have already interviewed. Then again it could be because no one has been hiring for the last year. Unless of course you believe that they are actively being discriminated against because of their skin color or gender. Is that it? Do you believe that is happening? Are you trying to say that the airlines where the HR departments are filled with people who would walk over 30 white guys with 10,000 hours to find a Woman that would meet their bare minimums are not hiring women or minorities?
Is anyone that stupid to believe that is what is going on and that is why there are "conferences chock full of people with years of experience, PIC time, and clean records, who still haven't filled more than a couple of slots in most major classes."
Once again please explain to me how the BLACK pilots of America is striving for the inclusions of all races? You can't do that either without a ton of mental gymnastics so it is easier to just call it a rant and ignore what is right in front of your face.
While you are at it please explain to my how deciding on who gets the interview based on sex and skin color isn't discrimination?
Minority specific organizations were created as a response to being shut out of existing channels that favored white men and disfavored everyone else. Pilot recruitment has always been biased towards white males (that doesn't mean white males are bad people, systems just have biases). I mean you don't think that the Apollo Space program pilots all being white males was just a happy coincidence do you? Or did having "The Right Stuff" mean fitting a particular demographic?
History didn't begin with our birthdays. A bunch of stuff happened before and has very much shaped and influenced the environment that exists in this moment. It can be an inconvenient thing, but the past and the present are inextricably linked.
"Unless of course you believe that they are actively being discriminated against because of their skin color or gender. Is that it? Do you believe that is happening? Are you trying to say that the airlines where the HR departments are filled with people who would walk over 30 white guys with 10,000 hours to find a Woman that would meet their bare minimums are not hiring women or minorities?"
And yet some how, inexplicably, pick any airline new hire class photo at random and it will be filled nearly all white males most of whom don't have anywhere near 10000 flight hours.
"Actively being discriminated against"? Systems have biases that effect outcomes. If those systems produce the aforementioned results maybe it's "actively" screening out candidates. Or maybe everything is just fine and the results just happened that way? <shrug>
04-13-2021, 03:58 AM
#173
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,918
Originally Posted by Shaman
Minority specific organizations were created as a response to being shut out of existing channels that favored white men and disfavored everyone else. Pilot recruitment has always been biased towards white males (that doesn't mean white males are bad people, systems just have biases). I mean you don't think that the Apollo Space program pilots all being white males was just a happy coincidence do you? Or did having "The Right Stuff" mean fitting a particular demographic?
History didn't begin with our birthdays. A bunch of stuff happened before and has very much shaped and influenced the environment that exists in this moment. It can be an inconvenient thing, but the past and the present are inextricably linked.
"Unless of course you believe that they are actively being discriminated against because of their skin color or gender. Is that it? Do you believe that is happening? Are you trying to say that the airlines where the HR departments are filled with people who would walk over 30 white guys with 10,000 hours to find a Woman that would meet their bare minimums are not hiring women or minorities?"
And yet some how, inexplicably, pick any airline new hire class photo at random and it will be filled nearly all white males most of whom don't have anywhere near 10000 flight hours.
"Actively being discriminated against"? Systems have biases that effect outcomes. If those systems produce the aforementioned results maybe it's "actively" screening out candidates. Or maybe everything is just fine and the results just happened that way? <shrug>
History didn't begin with our birthdays. A bunch of stuff happened before and has very much shaped and influenced the environment that exists in this moment. It can be an inconvenient thing, but the past and the present are inextricably linked.
"Unless of course you believe that they are actively being discriminated against because of their skin color or gender. Is that it? Do you believe that is happening? Are you trying to say that the airlines where the HR departments are filled with people who would walk over 30 white guys with 10,000 hours to find a Woman that would meet their bare minimums are not hiring women or minorities?"
And yet some how, inexplicably, pick any airline new hire class photo at random and it will be filled nearly all white males most of whom don't have anywhere near 10000 flight hours.
"Actively being discriminated against"? Systems have biases that effect outcomes. If those systems produce the aforementioned results maybe it's "actively" screening out candidates. Or maybe everything is just fine and the results just happened that way? <shrug>
04-13-2021, 05:56 AM
#174
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Originally Posted by Shaman
Minority specific organizations were created as a response to being shut out of existing channels that favored white men and disfavored everyone else. Pilot recruitment has always been biased towards white males (that doesn't mean white males are bad people, systems just have biases). I mean you don't think that the Apollo Space program pilots all being white males was just a happy coincidence do you? Or did having "The Right Stuff" mean fitting a particular demographic?
History didn't begin with our birthdays. A bunch of stuff happened before and has very much shaped and influenced the environment that exists in this moment. It can be an inconvenient thing, but the past and the present are inextricably linked.
"Unless of course you believe that they are actively being discriminated against because of their skin color or gender. Is that it? Do you believe that is happening? Are you trying to say that the airlines where the HR departments are filled with people who would walk over 30 white guys with 10,000 hours to find a Woman that would meet their bare minimums are not hiring women or minorities?"
And yet some how, inexplicably, pick any airline new hire class photo at random and it will be filled nearly all white males most of whom don't have anywhere near 10000 flight hours.
"Actively being discriminated against"? Systems have biases that effect outcomes. If those systems produce the aforementioned results maybe it's "actively" screening out candidates. Or maybe everything is just fine and the results just happened that way? <shrug>
History didn't begin with our birthdays. A bunch of stuff happened before and has very much shaped and influenced the environment that exists in this moment. It can be an inconvenient thing, but the past and the present are inextricably linked.
"Unless of course you believe that they are actively being discriminated against because of their skin color or gender. Is that it? Do you believe that is happening? Are you trying to say that the airlines where the HR departments are filled with people who would walk over 30 white guys with 10,000 hours to find a Woman that would meet their bare minimums are not hiring women or minorities?"
And yet some how, inexplicably, pick any airline new hire class photo at random and it will be filled nearly all white males most of whom don't have anywhere near 10000 flight hours.
"Actively being discriminated against"? Systems have biases that effect outcomes. If those systems produce the aforementioned results maybe it's "actively" screening out candidates. Or maybe everything is just fine and the results just happened that way? <shrug>
These programs are fixing symptoms not root causes....for example I'd love to see black men out of jail and in home with their families. Not see people in cages for non violent crimes. The fixing needs to be done at the beginning not the end of the cause and effect chain.
Again, I'm a white dude from a blighted small town. Parents (mine included) smoked like chimneys, were alcoholics, made terrible money and blew what money they had on stupid crap.
Guess how their kids (white) are doing when they grow up. Generally speaking not well. It's a struggle to overcome that culture pervasive where I grew up.
04-13-2021, 06:17 AM
#175
Perennial Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,538
Originally Posted by block30
They probably were no kidding the best of the best....at that time.
These programs are fixing symptoms not root causes....for example I'd love to see black men out of jail and in home with their families. Not see people in cages for non violent crimes. The fixing needs to be done at the beginning not the end of the cause and effect chain.
Again, I'm a white dude from a blighted small town. Parents (mine included) smoked like chimneys, were alcoholics, made terrible money and blew what money they had on stupid crap.
Guess how their kids (white) are doing when they grow up. Generally speaking not well. It's a struggle to overcome that culture pervasive where I grew up.
These programs are fixing symptoms not root causes....for example I'd love to see black men out of jail and in home with their families. Not see people in cages for non violent crimes. The fixing needs to be done at the beginning not the end of the cause and effect chain.
Again, I'm a white dude from a blighted small town. Parents (mine included) smoked like chimneys, were alcoholics, made terrible money and blew what money they had on stupid crap.
Guess how their kids (white) are doing when they grow up. Generally speaking not well. It's a struggle to overcome that culture pervasive where I grew up.
https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/M...o%20Family.pdf
For that ‘crime’ he essentially got run out of the Democrat party. It was ‘hurtful’ to say that the biggest single risk factor for poor outcome in life was to be the child of a single mom. But that’s as true today as it was then, and that’s independent of race.
But unless you change the culture - you are right - the future of those kids is blighted whatever their race.
04-13-2021, 07:36 AM
#176
Swimmin' in da pool
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 444
Originally Posted by Shaman
"Unless of course you believe that they are actively being discriminated against because of their skin color or gender. Is that it? Do you believe that is happening? Are you trying to say that the airlines where the HR departments are filled with people who would walk over 30 white guys with 10,000 hours to find a Woman that would meet their bare minimums are not hiring women or minorities?"
And yet some how, inexplicably, pick any airline new hire class photo at random and it will be filled nearly all white males most of whom don't have anywhere near 10000 flight hours.
And yet some how, inexplicably, pick any airline new hire class photo at random and it will be filled nearly all white males most of whom don't have anywhere near 10000 flight hours.
04-13-2021, 10:17 AM
#178
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,291
Originally Posted by Al Czervik
I have a pilot friend who’s wife is a HR bigwig with a well known company. She said the recruitment requirements are destroying the the company. They are already seeing the ramifications on quality control and the bottom line.
What a crock of Sh!T. Anyone would be foolish to believe any of that .
There are good and bad in all races of people. Every airline there is has female , Asian , black pilots flying right now and I don’t see planes falling from the sky .
in fact , 95% of the time when something happens it’s always white guys at the controls. Colgan ?? Delta 777 landing on fkn taxiway in ATL ? southwest landing at the wrong airport on Missouri a few years back , just to name a few . I could go on but I won’t .Bottom line is white guys arent Gods gift to aviation like some of you may think . Get over it .
04-13-2021, 01:55 PM
#179
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 454
Originally Posted by idlethrust
Everyone knows someone, it’s my friends wife blah blah blah
What a crock of Sh!T. Anyone would be foolish to believe any of that .
There are good and bad in all races of people. Every airline there is has female , Asian , black pilots flying right now and I don’t see planes falling from the sky .
in fact , 95% of the time when something happens it’s always white guys at the controls. Colgan ?? Delta 777 landing on fkn taxiway in ATL ? southwest landing at the wrong airport on Missouri a few years back , just to name a few . I could go on but I won’t .Bottom line is white guys arent Gods gift to aviation like some of you may think . Get over it .
What a crock of Sh!T. Anyone would be foolish to believe any of that .
There are good and bad in all races of people. Every airline there is has female , Asian , black pilots flying right now and I don’t see planes falling from the sky .
in fact , 95% of the time when something happens it’s always white guys at the controls. Colgan ?? Delta 777 landing on fkn taxiway in ATL ? southwest landing at the wrong airport on Missouri a few years back , just to name a few . I could go on but I won’t .Bottom line is white guys arent Gods gift to aviation like some of you may think . Get over it .
04-13-2021, 02:13 PM
#180
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 253
Originally Posted by Shaman
Minority specific organizations were created as a response to being shut out of existing channels that favored white men and disfavored everyone else. Pilot recruitment has always been biased towards white males (that doesn't mean white males are bad people, systems just have biases). I mean you don't think that the Apollo Space program pilots all being white males was just a happy coincidence do you? Or did having "The Right Stuff" mean fitting a particular demographic?
History didn't begin with our birthdays. A bunch of stuff happened before and has very much shaped and influenced the environment that exists in this moment. It can be an inconvenient thing, but the past and the present are inextricably linked.
"Unless of course you believe that they are actively being discriminated against because of their skin color or gender. Is that it? Do you believe that is happening? Are you trying to say that the airlines where the HR departments are filled with people who would walk over 30 white guys with 10,000 hours to find a Woman that would meet their bare minimums are not hiring women or minorities?"
And yet some how, inexplicably, pick any airline new hire class photo at random and it will be filled nearly all white males most of whom don't have anywhere near 10000 flight hours.
"Actively being discriminated against"? Systems have biases that effect outcomes. If those systems produce the aforementioned results maybe it's "actively" screening out candidates. Or maybe everything is just fine and the results just happened that way? <shrug>
History didn't begin with our birthdays. A bunch of stuff happened before and has very much shaped and influenced the environment that exists in this moment. It can be an inconvenient thing, but the past and the present are inextricably linked.
"Unless of course you believe that they are actively being discriminated against because of their skin color or gender. Is that it? Do you believe that is happening? Are you trying to say that the airlines where the HR departments are filled with people who would walk over 30 white guys with 10,000 hours to find a Woman that would meet their bare minimums are not hiring women or minorities?"
And yet some how, inexplicably, pick any airline new hire class photo at random and it will be filled nearly all white males most of whom don't have anywhere near 10000 flight hours.
"Actively being discriminated against"? Systems have biases that effect outcomes. If those systems produce the aforementioned results maybe it's "actively" screening out candidates. Or maybe everything is just fine and the results just happened that way? <shrug>
If the class is mostly white it is only because those were most of the candidates. For the same reason that you see mostly black people in the NBA. Is the NBA biased and in need of groups to help white people into the league? I guarantee that every woman or minority that met the minimum was interviewed.
You do know the difference between causation and causality which would explain this situation much better than trying to say that airlines are discriminating against minorities and women when in fact they seek out minorities and women to the point that they will allow them to interview with less experience than what is typical to get called in for an interview.
To give you a personal example in the late 90's and early 2000 I was a regional captain. I flew with around 17 Female FO during that time. I had over 5,000 TT with 1,200 turbine 121 PIC and a perfect record. I had my app in with every airline out there and was updating regularly but not a single interview came until 2004. Out of the 17 female FO 16 had either interviewed or were going to interview with United. One hadn't updated her app since getting hired at the regional and had no turbine time at all yet she got an interview. I asked the one that didn't have an interview with United why she was having problems and was told that she hadn't applied yet because she didn't think she met the minimums. I then told her put in an app and you will be surprised.
This was over 20 years ago and you are trying to sell us HR has become more biased during that time and are actively discriminating against women and minorities. I call B.S.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
