Errr, just so I know what I'm supposed to be asking my rep for, what, exactly, are the objectives of DTW?

Nu

 

It is exactly how I feel and how I behave.

Since you're into definitions...look up "hyperbole."

Again, look up hyperbole.

Exactly correct. ALPA has failed as a vendor and bargaining agent, thus I seek ALPA's decertification. But decertification hasn't happened yet. Therefore it is incumbent on all of us to stay active, stay informed, and stay unified behind ALPA if or until they are decertified.

This is part of the problem with ALPA and what has made ALPA such a weak institution. Specifically, the inability to debate. ALPA continuously ridicules those within its ranks who speak against what has come down from the top. If ridicule doesn't work and somebody actually casts a vote against what the top wants, then the epithet of "you're causing disunity" is used against the offender. We saw this with the 5 LEC reps who publicly came out against the TA. Each one was labeled as a "divider" and making us look weak against management because those opinions showed a lack of "unity."

This has been said many times by various LEC reps as they've tried to defend themselves against an MEC bureaucracy attack: "Disagreement is not disunity." This kind of silliness might work within the ALPA/DALPA echo chambers, but not amongst us in the real world. Debate equals strength. Fear of debate equals weakness. Anyone who demagogues people for opposition views does nothing but show their own weakness. ALPA is losing this battle on the ideas front, and because they're too afraid to discuss ideas without framing them the "ALPA way." Such as never using the word "restoration", or "outsourcing." It only serves to highlight the disconnect from members who use those words.

Carl

 

I see what you mean by that question, but I don't claim to know what those objectives might be, exactly. I just noticed, from the beginning of the joint forum, that when there was NvS MEC stuff that made its' way onto the forum, a lot of the writing came from Jerry, and it worked hand-in hand with whatever the reps might say at the time. It sure felt like an orchestrated thing. As far as the actual issues, I'm not certain, because he's active on so many. I recall a lot of exchanges on FPL, Moak / KW resigning, MEC Chairman election stuff, and establishing dual-structure committees, etc. Issues and positions that were new to a S guy, and felt orchestrated. I thought Fielding and C20 was kind of a package deal, judging from the forum.

Reps have changed once or twice since then, and I've seen less stuff from C20 since the TA. What specifically DTW would want now, I have no idea.

 

I corrected my typo a few pages back, well before you jumped on it. I'm completely aware that DPA is 5:15 (I mistakenly called it ADG as a typo.) I'm not changing the subject. The question remains Carl:

Is Jerry incapable of dividing 80 by 5?

OR

Was Jerry deliberately misleading (I'll say it again in Jerry format, LYING!!!!!) us by stating that it takes 20 days at 5 hours per day to reach 80 hours?

I've flown with Jerry, and I'm confident he can do simple math. So which is it?

This is your opinion (and you're also changing the subject), which I respectfully disagree with. I argue that interrupting our progress right as we are beginning to pull out of the lost decade spells disaster for our careers.

By the way, are you going to apologize for calling me a liar wrt filling out a DPA card?

 

That's not changing the subject Carl. That's providing facts. So if providing facts makes me "look silly" then I'll gladly accept that label.

DPA having little money is not opinion. It's fact. DPA having few volunteers isn't my opinion. It's fact. DPA being unable to lobby for itself is also fact, as DPA told us we need not worry because CAPA will lobby on our behalf.

So go ahead. Call me silly. I don't care at all.

 

Here's another question for you Carl.

What will happen to our ASAP program on day 1 of DPA?

ASAP exists as a tri-lateral agreement between the FAA, Delta and ALPA (not DPA.) Many Delta pilots have had their arses saved, after making an honest mistake, by the ASAP program. This happens WAY more frequently than the average line pilot would think.

ASAP is just one example of many of the programs that we all take for granted that will evaporate immediately upon decertification of ALPA.

Even if DPA is able to cobble together a program on a reasonably expedited timeline (unlikely given the multitude of other challenges that will present themselves re-inventing the wheel,) how many pilots will be caught in limbo without the ASAP safety net?

How many career-altering events will occur in the interim?

Who will be there to represent these pilots in front of the company?

In front of the FAA?

You argue that DPA can do all of these things, and do them better. What is an acceptable amount of collateral damage for us to endure as you work through a brand new organization's growing pains?

What if you're the one with an altitude bust on the day that DPA takes over?

 

You're going to blast me for posting an opinion which I claim to be fact, then go and do the same yourself?

I look forward to evidence to prove these personal opinions of yours.

 

Soooo, in other words you're talking out your bum.

If I was doing the same, I'd say your post was ignorant, devisive and inflammatory, reeks of N v S and is typically what I would expect of someone who likes to connect random dots and say it looks like a butterfly.

Not to mention, just plain rude.

Fortunately for you, I'm not doing the same.

Nu

 

He's not lying and the bid packages prove it. Go to any one of them that has domestic flying in them. You'll notice a lot of trips that have red eyes in them that would indeed take you 20 days of work to reach 80 hours. That's because there are exceptions to the minimum pay rules based on time of day you check in. Look at a bid packet and see for yourself.

I know he can too. What you can't do is acknowledge he's absolutely correct. Not with every trip in our domestic system, but a great deal of them.

This is where we disagree. We are NOT pulling out of the lost decade. We are making it worse. I acknowledge that we improved our pay and are at least getting COLA adjustments, but we fully funded that with productivity increases and a reduction in profit sharing. Where we're really hurting is scope. We're continuing to outsource pilot jobs on all fronts, and DALPA refuses (thus far) to show any stomach for defending our scope language.

Never called you a liar...you specifically called Jerry a liar and did so in all caps and bold font. If you say you sent in a DPA card at one time, then I believe you. And for saying that you didn't, you have my apologies.

Carl

 

I know you want to keep backing up from your patently goofy attempt at predicting the future while claiming your predictions are actually fact. But again, here's what you actually said in the post chain:



You were predicting the future as if it were fact. It was your personal opinion only. Factless personal opinion.

It's a fact that has nothing to do with the issue because DPA is not yet the bargaining agent for Delta pilots. All the money in the world wouldn't matter right now as we don't yet represent Delta pilots.

Completely wrong there. DPA has a lot volunteers that are ready and eager to build our new union. I'm one of them. But any volunteer work at this point is premature as we don't yet represent Delta pilots. Until that time comes, we have to stand behind ALPA.

DPA can't lobby because we're not yet the agent representing Delta pilots.

CAPA (and the addition of 11,000 Delta pilots) will lobby government on behalf of the industry. CAPA's lobbying has been far more effective than ALPA. What ALPA has been good at is taking sole credit for things they didn't start or stay consistent in.

Carl