Delta Representation Discussion
09-12-2013 | 06:37 PM
#481
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From: A-320A
09-12-2013 | 06:39 PM
#482
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From: A-320A
Couldn't help but notice that in your entire post response to scambo, you didn't once mention the main thrust of his post...the survey.
Given what I've highlighted in bold, how about a letter from all the current reps pledging that the survey results will not be withheld this time? Can you at least show us that this "new" blood in the LEC's can do this?
Carl
Given what I've highlighted in bold, how about a letter from all the current reps pledging that the survey results will not be withheld this time? Can you at least show us that this "new" blood in the LEC's can do this?
Carl
The survey and direction from the pilots was not disregarded like you state. Was all of it attained? Nope and that is why its still valid and why releasing it is a bad idea. To say it was totally disregarded is wrong. Much of it was attained, and to my surprise. Honest answer.
09-12-2013 | 06:43 PM
#483
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Not at all. But you're seriously overestimating the number of those 600+ that will quit because the name on their lanyard changes. Most will want to at least have the opportunity to continue in those roles, because most of them feel they work for Delta pilots...not ALPA.
1. At what point is it time to do some house cleaning?
DPA also mentions starting from a clean slate quite a bit.
DPA FAQ
Please remember that this is a collaborative process being created on a clean slate.
DPA Press Release
The Delta Pilots Association will start from a clean slate and build its constitution and by-laws from the ground up using the best practices from all airline pilot labor organizations and innovation from within the ranks of Delta Pilots.
Not sure which union practices they got raising dues without a vote from
09-12-2013 | 06:44 PM
#484
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From: 747-400 Captain
I believe the FAA will have no desire to end the MOU because of a change in our union's name. I don't believe management will either. It serves no purpose to do so. Thus a new MOU keeping everything except the name of the union will be a snap. I've developed these personally, and will be glad to handle it if asked.
Carl
09-12-2013 | 06:50 PM
#485
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From: A-320A
Technical nuance...that's funny.
I guess this is as far as you can go in saying ALPA's got problems. At least shiznit comes right out and says ALPA's got problems. Admitting you've got problems is certainly step 1 in any recovery.
Step 2 is pledging that the DALPA MEC will never again agree to the outsourcing of any more Delta pilot jobs under any circumstance regardless of the perceived gain, never agree to anything that aids the continuance of any idea that outsources Delta pilot jobs, and will demand sunsetting of all current contracts that outsource a single Delta pilot job. Anything like that on the horizon ACL? It'd be a damn good step 2.
Carl
I guess this is as far as you can go in saying ALPA's got problems. At least shiznit comes right out and says ALPA's got problems. Admitting you've got problems is certainly step 1 in any recovery.
Step 2 is pledging that the DALPA MEC will never again agree to the outsourcing of any more Delta pilot jobs under any circumstance regardless of the perceived gain, never agree to anything that aids the continuance of any idea that outsources Delta pilot jobs, and will demand sunsetting of all current contracts that outsource a single Delta pilot job. Anything like that on the horizon ACL? It'd be a damn good step 2.
Carl
What you state in step two is my vision for what we need to do, and in a good environment where the legislative laws remain unchanged, where LCC merges with AMR and the industry is set up perfectly to not be forced in to concessionary bargaining again. Ya know what ALPA National and the Delta MEC have been working to set up since CH11.? Yeah that is easy to state. You get foreign ownership laws removed, and see the industry fall apart, you are back where we were a decade ago and back to a concessionary spiral. A void in DC would set this up perfectly and that is why DPA is very nearsighted. You can want something but you have to make sure you can set the environment up to attain it. Its what has been happening and is a day to day fight. Analogies that akin ALPA imploding like removing your foot out of the water could not be more succinct. The only people who would notice ALPA gone are the pilots that no longer have a voice to offer reason to stop these changes in DC.
09-12-2013 | 06:54 PM
#486
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APA did mismanage their Section 6 by not realizing that NMB had decided to play the role of management stonewalling. But APA definitely did the right thing in bankruptcy by ignoring the ALPA advice to take whatever is offered and live to fight another day. APA ignored that and refused the judge's first offer. The judge's second offer was considerably better, although still not great given the bankruptcy.
09-12-2013 | 06:56 PM
#487
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From: 747-400 Captain
You don't want ppl to judge DPA on liking the TA to a Chinese Forced, what again? You don't want pilots to vote on DPA because of its current leader? You don't want people to judge DPA on the fact they cannot even fill their committee structure with "5500" cards, but you judge a very well written Chairman's letter on one word? That's level handed isn't it.
If there are talking points I am not reading them. The same points that were true then are true today. You still are not listening. DPA is using emotion to get cards. Emotion does not yield results at the table, you know that. Emotions gain cards in a card count, and its a great marketing campaign but not much else.
ALPA has been positing factual retorts, finally. Now the retort is don't retort show me results, when the results are there, it will be about the process, and when the process finally morphs as direct pilot input dictates it, it will be about something else. You are going after emotions and emotional reactions refuse to look at facts. If facts were all that mattered, we would not even be discussing DPA. Pilots want more, don't look at the industry, and respond by getting ****ed and picking the easiest target; ALPA and sending ALPA a message but dropping a card which makes em feel better, but solves nothing but moving us closer to a vote and a possible train wreck for our careers.
Carl
09-12-2013 | 07:03 PM
#488
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Step 2 is pledging that the DALPA MEC will never again agree to the outsourcing of any more Delta pilot jobs under any circumstance regardless of the perceived gain, never agree to anything that aids the continuance of any idea that outsources Delta pilot jobs, and will demand sunsetting of all current contracts that outsource a single Delta pilot job. Anything like that on the horizon ACL? It'd be a damn good step 2.
Carl
Carl
Increased scope protection to reduce regional destruction of our product and careers with system integration of pilots flying Delta routes. Aircraft displaying the Delta livery should only be flown by Delta Pilots.
Establish flow up/seniority for all regional affiliates to establish a solid brand for Delta Airlines at all levels and stop the cannibalization of our flying by pitting one regional carrier against another.
Establish flow up/seniority for all regional affiliates to establish a solid brand for Delta Airlines at all levels and stop the cannibalization of our flying by pitting one regional carrier against another.
DPA Constitution
To preserve and increase Delta pilot jobs by seeking to capture all flying done by Delta regional affiliates, code shares, joint ventures, and other flying done under the Delta brand to the maximum extent possible.
To establish a relationship with any organization or other Air Carriers to share information and support where a mutual benefit is possible.
To establish a relationship with any organization or other Air Carriers to share information and support where a mutual benefit is possible.
Isn't that what we do now we seek to capture the flying to the maximum extent possible? Forming a relationship with other air carriers and sharing information isn't a conflict of interest?
09-12-2013 | 07:03 PM
#489
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl;
The survey and direction from the pilots was not disregarded like you state. Was all of it attained? Nope and that is why its still valid and why releasing it is a bad idea. To say it was totally disregarded is wrong. Much of it was attained, and to my surprise. Honest answer.
The survey and direction from the pilots was not disregarded like you state. Was all of it attained? Nope and that is why its still valid and why releasing it is a bad idea. To say it was totally disregarded is wrong. Much of it was attained, and to my surprise. Honest answer.
Couldn't help but notice that in your entire post response to scambo, you didn't once mention the main thrust of his post...the survey.
Given what I've highlighted in bold, how about a letter from all the current reps pledging that the survey results will not be withheld this time? Can you at least show us that this "new" blood in the LEC's can do this?
Given what I've highlighted in bold, how about a letter from all the current reps pledging that the survey results will not be withheld this time? Can you at least show us that this "new" blood in the LEC's can do this?
Carl
09-12-2013 | 07:05 PM
#490
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From: A-320A
We don't have a DPA leader because the membership hasn't voted for one yet. We do have a DALPA leader...you voted him in. He said what he said. People can decide for themselves what it meant.
Again, people can decide for themselves.
I know your opinion is only ALPA can provide that. Your opinion is only worth one vote in this debate however.
Of course you're reading talking points. They're right out of ALPA. I remember getting a copy way back when DPA first started. One of the key words to use was "emotional".
I've also reported facts ACL. 6 of them in one post earlier. Those are the facts that DALPA refuses to face. Instead they just pretend it never happened, and keep repeating the talking points as you've done here with such loyalty. You're not going to win this if you don't face up to what's been done.
Carl
Again, people can decide for themselves.
I know your opinion is only ALPA can provide that. Your opinion is only worth one vote in this debate however.
Of course you're reading talking points. They're right out of ALPA. I remember getting a copy way back when DPA first started. One of the key words to use was "emotional".
I've also reported facts ACL. 6 of them in one post earlier. Those are the facts that DALPA refuses to face. Instead they just pretend it never happened, and keep repeating the talking points as you've done here with such loyalty. You're not going to win this if you don't face up to what's been done.
Carl
What posts? I have not gone back and read it all. I think there are plenty of others that have responded and refuted them so I did not read em.
You are wrong on TWA
You are wrong on much of what you perceive is going on at DALPA and at national.
You are wrong on what a large thud our pilots will feel if DPA wins.
You are being naive when you say that the changeover will be seamless.
Its a lot of pie in the sky on what will go on. Look no farther than UAPA to see how long it takes to get in to position. Ask the FDX pilots and they were lucky that they had an ALPA to return to.
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