You're showing a fundamental lack of understanding regarding ASAP program. Just another panic ridden attempt at scare tactics by the ALPA rent-a-mob.

FAA sees ASAP programs as a very good thing. Today's FAA does not stand in the way of ASAP programs. The hold up with our ASAP at Delta was management. Eventually, management came to understand ASAP was a good thing.

Our current LOA covering ASAP is in our PWA. Thus it survives a change in representation like all other aspects of the PWA. Anyone on either side making the case that some portion of our PWA no longer applies because it says ALPA somewhere will quickly get a lesson in labor law and NMB rules.

ASAP stays in place exactly like it is if DPA is voted in. Were there any question whatsoever on behalf of management, getting FAA clarification on the issue of Delta's ASAP will be quick and easy to get.

Carl

 

Gladly.

Fact 1: ALPA represents different pilot groups with interests in securing the same flying. It is THE legal definition of a conflict of interest. Representing both sides in an arrangement where both sides are seeking the same asset is against the bar association's legal ethics. You can't even do that in most states in a real estate transaction. Yet it's how ALPA operates because it's not illegal.

Now my statement that ALPA's heavily conflicted structure is the biggest threat to all of our careers is my personal opinion.

Fact 2: ALPA's poor job for so long is highlighted by the fact that our career's biggest collapse over the last 20 years occurred under ALPA representation. Not independent union representation, ALPA representation.

Fact 3: TWA pilots suing and winning against ALPA in their claim that ALPA failed in their duty to fairly represent. More proof of ALPA's poor job for so long.

Fact 4: ALPA strongly opposed any change to the age 60 rule, then openly backed the increase to age 65. More proof of ALPA's poor job for so long.

Fact 5: ALPA strongly backed the 1,500 hour rule. Then worked very hard with airline management to reduce the 1,500 hour limitation. Ironically, it was the FAA that held the line on the 1,500 hour rule. More proof of ALPA's poor job for so long.

Fact 6: ALPA strongly opposed changes to the Flight Time/Duty Time regs if they increased flight times or duty times. In the end, ALPA backed the increases in both. More proof of ALPA's poor job for so long.

Fact 7: ALPA touted the Atlantic JV as a win for Delta pilots because of the percentages of flying for Delta pilots. Now both ALPA and Delta management acknowledges those percentages that were supposed to protect Delta jobs will not be met. More proof of ALPA's poor job for so long.

Fact 8: ALPA refused to grieve the RAH abuse of the DALPA scope section because ALPA said the language (that they wrote) was too weak to defend in a grievance. More proof of ALPA's poor job for so long.

There's more, but it's dinner time.

Carl

 

Carl,

Sir, to state that many of these positions would not have a learning curve is terribly naive and perhaps a bit disingenuous. For one, a lot that happens with the CPO and the FSDO has to do with relationships. It takes time to establish and build those connections. My time service in ALPA Safety at another airline as well as twenty years plus of experience defending pilots and operators only cracks the door open for me to have some idea (and appreciation) of what the guys who work for us do.

You make good money. You want to trust your career (and hope you never need their services, but if) to anyone but the best at the top of their game?

A pro knows where to look, who to talk to and what arguments work.

BB

 

Just to cherry pick 2 "facts" because of limited time.

"Fact 2 ". How nice it must be in your insulated whale bubble. Sept 11, SARS, Oil approaching $150 a barrel, banking collapse and the worst economic melt down since the Great Depression couldn't possibly be factors.

"Fact 4". Living in denial is no way to live. Age 60 was changing, WITH OR WITHOUT our support. We could cross our arms and pout like a spoiled brat or we could adapt and improvise to manage and lessen the negative impacts. Would you have liked to see every retired pilot under 65 come back on top of the seniority list? If you feel so strongly about it, I'm sure you are going to retire at 60, right?

 

I didn't talk about a learning curve, but I'm glad you did. It will be a completely seamless transition...as in no curve at all. I agree that our current Safety Chairman is a great guy. He was super at NWA, and is doing great now as is his staff. The former chairman and staff were also great, and I'm sure Delta's former and staff were great. I happen to do this kind of stuff in my company. There are literally hundreds of guys on our seniority list that could jump on this on day one. If I was needed, I would do it in a heartbeat.

I have those relationships right now, and I don't work for ALPA. There are others on our seniority list that can claim the exact same thing. We have more talent in this regard than we can possibly use...including the people who currently serve in those roles. Which brings up another point: I think it is a subtle and completely wrong assumption that many of these folks will want to quit their jobs because the name of the bargaining agent changes. Some will, but many won't. I've spoken to them. Some say they will quit immediately. Most say they work for Delta pilots...not ALPA. Those are my kind of guys and gals.

I don't want anybody but the best. Our seniority list has a number that can be described as the best. This is not even the slightest of worries.

Correct. And we have many, many pros on our seniority list.

Carl

 

It's not a scare tactic. Who is the DPA member on the ERC? What is their experience? What relationships have they cultivated?

As Bar correctly points out, you can't just get it "quick and easy." It takes time to build relationships and gain experience. This applies to every pilot service position that ALPA provides. I'm not trying to scare anyone. I'm asking everyone to do a reality check. How will DPA's contract admin committee effectively represent me on day 1 of DPA? How many YEARS of experience for their R&I or scheduling volunteers have? I've heard the DPA government affairs chairman refer to himself as "just a placeholder." That doesn't sound like someone that is ready to lead the fight against cabotage and foreign ownership. Etc, etc.

You dismissively assert that there will be no lapse in service. I am suggesting that this is not the case. We will suffer through DPA's learning curve without a doubt. Just ask USAPA. They can't even get out of their own way with regular business. Where is the time and expertise going to come from to replace all of these essential ALPA services?

Sorry man, I'm just not willing to watch guys fall through the cracks while you do on the job training.

 

Arrogance or naivete? I'm not sure which is scarier.

You are seriously underestimating the amount of work that the 600+ Delta pilot volunteers do every day if you think it will be "easy" or "seamless."

If you would recognize the challenges of re-inventing the wheel, and lay out a plan for working through them, then you would be off to a much better start. As it is, you are making promises that you, without question, will not be able to keep.

Let's apply the same logic to you and all the other "experts" that DPA has amassed. If you are only concerned about the Delta pilots (not DPA) then why aren't you actively participating in your union? You say you are currently unified behind ALPA - but it's clear that you're talking out both sides of your mouth.



We can agree here. Many of them are already serving the Delta pilots every day. Just think how much more we could accomplish if you'd back up your talk of unity with action.

 

Are attempts at wisecracks a sign of virility inside the DALPA echo chamber? What could this possibly have to do with anything?

All of these items you list were also experienced by the independents of SWAPA and IPA. Only ALPA can claim the sheer number of historic collapses experienced by the airline pilots they represented. Just to ensure you don't think I'm changing the subject, here is my repost of Fact #2:

Again, I'm comparing ALPA versus independent union life in the exact same world experiencing the exact same disasters.

Then that is the argument ALPA should have made to us from the beginning. But ALPA didn't do that. ALPA was strong and public about its position in total opposition to the proposed rule change. Then ALPA completely reversed itself and worked with the committees to change the rule to 65.

Again, is this type of hyperbole prized in the DALPA echo chamber? When you talk like this, does everybody laugh? Just curious.

I do feel strongly about it because ALPA is currently my bargaining agent, and they completely flip-flopped on this issue. Nobody disagrees with that except the most ardent of the ALPA rent-a-mob. And yes, I will be retiring at 60. It was always my plan to do so, and I'm fortunate that my plan has worked out.

Carl

 

Of course you're trying to scare people. That's what DALPA/ALPA does. Even if every current DALPA person quits (and they won't), we have many, many others who used to do those jobs and quit because they couldn't stomach the corruption and waste they saw inside ALPA. Those people are still here and ready to get back to work. There are also new younger people with great new ideas that need their chance to serve...instead of being blocked if their "interviews" don't go well.

This is all your highly partisan and personal opinion. But the equating of DPA with USAPA is almost getting embarrassing it's so tired. You've been equating DPA to USAPA from the beginning...and it's done you no good.

Sure you are. You support an organization that does that on a regular basis. Just ask any pilot from TWA.

Carl

 

Sometimes ALPA's harshest critics pay ALPA the most sincere compliments.

ALPA fought age 65, unlike the independents. When it was apparent age 65 was going to be passed despite ALPA's objections, then ALPA fought to limit the harm by engaging and preventing post retired pilots from returning.