Delta Representation Discussion
09-13-2013 | 06:30 PM
#541
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From: 747-400 Captain
I didn't say that. You're saying that. The C&BL's are on the site for your viewing.
A core group of board members is writing and editing them now. If we win the vote, any further changes will follow the process as described.
You mean ALPA?
It is.
Many of us had input to the board. All will have input after certification.
The US constitution was not written by all citizens. It was written at the constitutional convention. After we became a nation, all citizens have a vote through their representatives to amend.
You seem to be confused with the creation of a constitution, and the amendment thereof after the entity holds power.
Not a thing. They'd be guaranteed to lose then. What would keep a single DALPA bureaucrat from signing a LOA with management to delete block hour ratios in our Section 1?
Yes it could. And the whole effort would be for naught because DPA would lose the vote.
As such a staunch ALPA supporter, do you really want to discuss lucrative compensation packages and wasteful spending?
Carl
A core group of board members is writing and editing them now. If we win the vote, any further changes will follow the process as described.
You mean ALPA?
It is.
The US constitution was not written by all citizens. It was written at the constitutional convention. After we became a nation, all citizens have a vote through their representatives to amend.
You seem to be confused with the creation of a constitution, and the amendment thereof after the entity holds power.
As such a staunch ALPA supporter, do you really want to discuss lucrative compensation packages and wasteful spending?
Carl
09-13-2013 | 06:45 PM
#542
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl,
Don't intend to answer for ACL, but I am pretty sure he is going to state it is a bit simplistic and unrealistic to make such an absolute statement, no matter how good it feels.
We have international codeshare, we have joint ventures and we have permitted flying. Depending on how one parses definitions all of those might be inferred to be "Delta flying." Yet, if we were to simply demand "no" it would not happen (as American just proved) and could even cost us some Delta jobs due to reductions across our highly integrated network.
Anyone in any position of responsibility is going to insist on seeing a real proposal, considering pilot input, vetting that proposal themselves and with subject matter experts, then they will present a well considered response, or counter proposal. Besides no one Delta pilot can make a statement on behalf of the Delta pilots. Obviously there is a process to follow and 12,000 other opinions to consider.
Don't intend to answer for ACL, but I am pretty sure he is going to state it is a bit simplistic and unrealistic to make such an absolute statement, no matter how good it feels.
We have international codeshare, we have joint ventures and we have permitted flying. Depending on how one parses definitions all of those might be inferred to be "Delta flying." Yet, if we were to simply demand "no" it would not happen (as American just proved) and could even cost us some Delta jobs due to reductions across our highly integrated network.
Anyone in any position of responsibility is going to insist on seeing a real proposal, considering pilot input, vetting that proposal themselves and with subject matter experts, then they will present a well considered response, or counter proposal. Besides no one Delta pilot can make a statement on behalf of the Delta pilots. Obviously there is a process to follow and 12,000 other opinions to consider.
If you ask the question differently, you are more likely to get the desired response. Here, let me try:
------
Hey ACL,
You want Delta pilots to perform all Delta flying?
Do you support sunsetting all agreements that outsource Delta jobs?
Do you want to reduce outsourcing?
------
Hey ACL,
You want Delta pilots to perform all Delta flying?
Do you support sunsetting all agreements that outsource Delta jobs?
Do you want to reduce outsourcing?
We haven't even measured whether mainline flying has returned. That won't happen until January 2014. We haven't hired anyone yet...and IF we do, it won't come close to replacing retirements. Block hour ratios won't even be measured until Jan 2014. Improved Joint Venture language Bar? Seriously? Like our Atlantic JV percentage guarantees?
Carl
09-13-2013 | 06:55 PM
#543
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
We haven't even measured whether mainline flying has returned. That won't happen until January 2014. We haven't hired anyone yet...and IF we do, it won't come close to replacing retirements. Block hour ratios won't even be measured until Jan 2014. Improved Joint Venture language Bar? Seriously? Like our Atlantic JV percentage guarantees?
Carl
I've got to turn in, but I will endeavor to find some stats on mainline block and the fact that, depending on where you take your snapshot, we are hiring more than retirements. I am basing that statement on increasing block hours. Flight Time Duty Time will have an unknown impact, but so far Delta has not been modifying their staffing model around it.
I am a voice way out in the wilderness on restoring ALPA's alter ego language. I plan to keep working on it until it's done. Changes to SLI policy over the last couple of years make it more difficult. Could be another 15 years, who knows.
Regards, BB
09-13-2013 | 06:59 PM
#544
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From: 747-400 Captain
Yes, Carl is trying to ask a question that may be well intended but is designed to put a expectation out there that is unattainable with production balances code share flying et al. In that light, the goal of performing all Delta Flying is an admirable goal but one that is the ultimate goal that will take years and careers to attain.
...pledging that the DALPA MEC will never again agree to the outsourcing of any more Delta pilot jobs under any circumstance regardless of the perceived gain, never agree to anything that aids the continuance of any idea that outsources Delta pilot jobs, and will demand sunsetting of all current contracts that outsource a single Delta pilot job...
A letter that so concisely states DALPA's pledge to its members going forward would probably end any movement toward an independent union. It would show that DALPA might finally be "getting it" from a philosophical point of view.
The fact that you can't sign on to a letter like that is just sad.
Carl
09-13-2013 | 07:36 PM
#545
Gets Weekends Off
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For the lurkers here who may not know, alfaromeo used to be very high up in Delta's MEC administration. When our new MEC was elected recently, they voted out the MEC chairman and alfaromeo...among others. Shortly thereafter, alfaromeo posted this on the Delta L&G thread (bold emphasis mine):
Imagine our surprise when we found out what alfaromeo's work was...who his client was. His client was the United MEC. His work was union work. He was hired at the request of Lee Moak to be a merger committee consultant for the United MEC during their SLI with the Continental pilots.
Knowing what you know now, re-read alfaromeo's post. Then decide for yourself whether he's in a position to say what he said in his top post. In particular, "uniquely dishonest and manipulative"...and "glaring lack of integrity as they use half truths, manipulation, and outright lies."
Carl
Imagine our surprise when we found out what alfaromeo's work was...who his client was. His client was the United MEC. His work was union work. He was hired at the request of Lee Moak to be a merger committee consultant for the United MEC during their SLI with the Continental pilots.
Knowing what you know now, re-read alfaromeo's post. Then decide for yourself whether he's in a position to say what he said in his top post. In particular, "uniquely dishonest and manipulative"...and "glaring lack of integrity as they use half truths, manipulation, and outright lies."
Carl
09-13-2013 | 07:55 PM
#546
Banned
Joined: Aug 2011
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The DPA, not quite living up to its claim: "This document guarantees the control of the Association remains completely in the hands of the membership as a collective body."
I guess at the DPA some animals are more equal than others. Particularly the unelected, self appointed kind.
09-13-2013 | 08:00 PM
#547
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The US Constitution was never amended without following the prescribed process. The DPA Constitution is subject to the whims of a core group of unelected insiders without any notification to the membership and without any membership input on the amendments. Truly a top down "association."
09-13-2013 | 08:08 PM
#548
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That dog wont hunt Carl. Nice dodge though. On the DPA website they post with great fan fare their "Constitution." They even give a link to it. Problem is, now that their "constitution" is found to be full of holes, Caplinger and his "core group" of unelected insiders can alter the "constitution" without notifying the membership and without following any process written within their own "constitution."
09-13-2013 | 08:14 PM
#549
Banned
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DPA Committee pay: up to 105 hours guaranteed for a half month of union work
ALPA Rep pay: What he holds and can bid
DPA Rep Pay: up to 105 hours guaranteed for a half month of union work
09-14-2013 | 04:55 AM
#550
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Right Seat 744
Good spin cowboy. Now go read Article 13, Section 7 of the DPA Constitution and Bylaws.
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