Getting hired with no turbine experience.
02-13-2007 | 03:01 PM
#61
Line Holder
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: Boeing 777 Captain (CAL)
I know a couple of captains at Alaska Airlines. They told me about a guy who has no college and the majority of his flight time was in a 208. If I remember correctly the guy had around 1000 hours in a C310 and close to 3000 in a 208. I do not remember what year this guy got hired; but, it was not to long ago.(within the last 10 yrs) My buddies said that the only reason he got hired; because, he was an Eskimo from the bush. Being a minority in any business will put you far ahead from your competition.
02-14-2007 | 06:15 AM
#62
Ben Salley
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
From: Left
I think it's safe to make this sweeping generalization that most minority pilots (female/black/Mexican/one-armed/etc.) neither want nor expect preferential treatment. They probably just want to be seen as what they are - pilots. If mgmt does give preferential treatment, what are they gonna do... change their names on the resume?
Obviously everyone knows this one black dude who got hired below mins or some female who had less time than all the others in the interviewing group. The problem seems like people then apply this exception they know to the minority group as whole.. i.e., whenever you see some young blonde female pilot, you automatically assume that she got hired below mins and thus stole the job that should've been yours. Maybe she did... but for many more young blonde females who plugged their way through like everyone else, these assumptions undermine the qualifications they worked hard (like everyone else) to achieve.
I think it's also safe to say that most of the preferential hiring is done through connections/internal recs., not minority hiring. I can't count how many times the corporate/fractional pilots I've met in FBOs tell me to make as much connections as I can because that's how they got in with their companies. One guy can have less time or qualifications than another dude, but still get in with the company because he knows the owner, or his dad is best buddies with the chief pilot, etc. etc. Yet, there's no shame in saying one got a job because of connections, and no outcry about that from other pilots. It might be unfair, but it's just a fact of life.
Besides, whoever said that the more hours you have the more qualified you are? Obviously there's a difference between someone with 500 hrs and someone with 3000 hrs. But once you cross a certain mark, it all just comes down to attitude.
that's my story and im stickin to it!
Obviously everyone knows this one black dude who got hired below mins or some female who had less time than all the others in the interviewing group. The problem seems like people then apply this exception they know to the minority group as whole.. i.e., whenever you see some young blonde female pilot, you automatically assume that she got hired below mins and thus stole the job that should've been yours. Maybe she did... but for many more young blonde females who plugged their way through like everyone else, these assumptions undermine the qualifications they worked hard (like everyone else) to achieve.
I think it's also safe to say that most of the preferential hiring is done through connections/internal recs., not minority hiring. I can't count how many times the corporate/fractional pilots I've met in FBOs tell me to make as much connections as I can because that's how they got in with their companies. One guy can have less time or qualifications than another dude, but still get in with the company because he knows the owner, or his dad is best buddies with the chief pilot, etc. etc. Yet, there's no shame in saying one got a job because of connections, and no outcry about that from other pilots. It might be unfair, but it's just a fact of life.
Besides, whoever said that the more hours you have the more qualified you are? Obviously there's a difference between someone with 500 hrs and someone with 3000 hrs. But once you cross a certain mark, it all just comes down to attitude.
that's my story and im stickin to it!
02-14-2007 | 08:43 AM
#63
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
I know a couple of captains at Alaska Airlines. They told me about a guy who has no college and the majority of his flight time was in a 208. If I remember correctly the guy had around 1000 hours in a C310 and close to 3000 in a 208. I do not remember what year this guy got hired; but, it was not to long ago.(within the last 10 yrs) My buddies said that the only reason he got hired; because, he was an Eskimo from the bush. Being a minority in any business will put you far ahead from your competition.
02-14-2007 | 10:07 AM
#64
Ben Salley
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
From: Left
Who's Fault is it?
It's easy to read this thread and glean who is responsible for the practice of hiring under-qualified minorities. History teaches us that from the post WWII era, WASP pilots were unwilling to share their cockpits with qualified minorities of any sort. MOST WASP pilots thought it ab-horrible to share the skies with the same men and women whom served honorably during that war. Many, many highly-qualified African-American and Women pilots were available but shunned. It took 20 years and a Supreme Court decision to get Marlon Green hired in 1965. In the aftermath, the airlines were forced to hire African-American applicants. They had a choice; either hire qualified applicants, whom were available or just swallow the pill and hire the quota required as soon as possible and get this terrible experience over with. The benefit to hiring under qualified applicants instead of a "Chappie James" is that the guy with the less stellar resume is less likely to become a check-airman or chief pilot one day, and we can have a good time talking about how this black pilot hired with 100 hour has always had trouble in training. The later reason being how this post was eagerly hijacked by captain mark. In my work with minority recruitment/retention in the ANG, I have a list of over 2000 minority pilots with over 1000 hours PIC turbine. About 350 of these have jobs with the major airlines. Those numbers reflect 2005, and guess what? 2005 was the year with the LEAST African-American military pilots in history. The numbers have linearly declined since 1955. So if you hear that your company might be about to hire under-qualified minorities, please pm me. When I hear about minority pilots hired without minimum requisite qualifications it bewilders me, but I know to whom the blame rest....Angry white guys who would rather point the finger at the small percentage of the very small percentage of minority pilots whom were not minimally qualified for the job.
And no! I don't think it is possible to get hired at a major without turbine experience.
Your future Chief-Pilot,
A-320
And no! I don't think it is possible to get hired at a major without turbine experience.
Your future Chief-Pilot,
A-320
02-14-2007 | 03:13 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
It's easy to read this thread and glean who is responsible for the practice of hiring under-qualified minorities. History teaches us that from the post WWII era, WASP pilots were unwilling to share their cockpits with qualified minorities of any sort. MOST WASP pilots thought it ab-horrible to share the skies with the same men and women whom served honorably during that war. Many, many highly-qualified African-American and Women pilots were available but shunned. It took 20 years and a Supreme Court decision to get Marlon Green hired in 1965. In the aftermath, the airlines were forced to hire African-American applicants. They had a choice; either hire qualified applicants, whom were available or just swallow the pill and hire the quota required as soon as possible and get this terrible experience over with. The benefit to hiring under qualified applicants instead of a "Chappie James" is that the guy with the less stellar resume is less likely to become a check-airman or chief pilot one day, and we can have a good time talking about how this black pilot hired with 100 hour has always had trouble in training. The later reason being how this post was eagerly hijacked by captain mark. In my work with minority recruitment/retention in the ANG, I have a list of over 2000 minority pilots with over 1000 hours PIC turbine. About 350 of these have jobs with the major airlines. Those numbers reflect 2005, and guess what? 2005 was the year with the LEAST African-American military pilots in history. The numbers have linearly declined since 1955. So if you hear that your company might be about to hire under-qualified minorities, please pm me. When I hear about minority pilots hired without minimum requisite qualifications it bewilders me, but I know to whom the blame rest....Angry white guys who would rather point the finger at the small percentage of the very small percentage of minority pilots whom were not minimally qualified for the job.
And no! I don't think it is possible to get hired at a major without turbine experience.
Your future Chief-Pilot,
A-320
And no! I don't think it is possible to get hired at a major without turbine experience.
Your future Chief-Pilot,
A-320
02-14-2007 | 03:15 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Capt. Mega, err, Freightpuppy, if all minorities were as qualified as you say you were when you hired, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
02-14-2007 | 04:28 PM
#68
Ben Salley
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
From: Left
Actually, it's not the white man's fault. It's human nature's fault. I'm no ones victim. And my career has been quite stellar, due to my own demeanor, and that of men, both white and black, greater than you. I don't blame the white man for any of YOUR (SINGULAR) shortcomongs. Wouldn't give you the pleasure. If it weren't for good men, of ALL colors, I couldn't frustrate you so much. Sleep well dojet, have to fly to AMS 2morrow.
Godspeed!
A-320
Godspeed!
A-320
02-14-2007 | 04:35 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Dust in the Wind - Kansas
I close my eyes
only for a moment
and the moments gone
all my dreams
pass before my eyes in curiosity
dust in the wind
all we are dust in the wind
Some old song
just a drop of water
in the endless sea
all we do
crumbles to the ground
though we refuse to see
dust in the wind
Now, donīt hang on
nothing last forever
but the earth and sky
it slips away
And all your money
won`t another minute buy
Dust in the wind
all we are dust in the wind
dust in the wind
dust in the wind
only for a moment
and the moments gone
all my dreams
pass before my eyes in curiosity
dust in the wind
all we are dust in the wind
Some old song
just a drop of water
in the endless sea
all we do
crumbles to the ground
though we refuse to see
dust in the wind
Now, donīt hang on
nothing last forever
but the earth and sky
it slips away
And all your money
won`t another minute buy
Dust in the wind
all we are dust in the wind
dust in the wind
dust in the wind
Last edited by NGINEWHOISWHAT; 02-14-2007 at 04:57 PM. Reason: typo
02-14-2007 | 05:02 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,732
Likes: 0
From: DD->DH->RU/XE soon to be EV
Actually, it's not the white man's fault. It's human nature's fault. I'm no ones victim. And my career has been quite stellar, due to my own demeanor, and that of men, both white and black, greater than you. I don't blame the white man for any of YOUR (SINGULAR) shortcomongs. Wouldn't give you the pleasure. If it weren't for good men, of ALL colors, I couldn't frustrate you so much. Sleep well dojet, have to fly to AMS 2morrow.
Godspeed!
A-320
Godspeed!
A-320
"..Angry white guys who would rather point the finger at the small percentage of the very small percentage of minority pilots whom were not minimally qualified for the job."
Sorry, my fault. I didn't recognize that we are all "angry white guys" and there is not a single minority out there who feels that they are entitled to something. If you have yet to meet one, I don't know where the hell you have been.
What is a "small percentage of a very small percentage"?
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