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Old 02-22-2019, 12:24 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Phoenix21 View Post
You’ve got a better chance of getting hired directly from a flying tour as soon as you separate than you do getting hired quickly after loosing flight currency, getting out then going to a regional to regain currency.
I have read this statement at least 5 times, and still have no idea what you're trying to say.

Non-current (but otherwise qualified) military guys who go to the regionals, barring some kind of really serious skeleton in the closet, are nearly certain to be hired into a major job.

If anything, that's a *more certain* path to the majors than it is to be hired directly out of active military flying service, as the majors highly value pilots with both military *and* 121 airline training and flying experience.

Now, there is definitely a timeline difference between the two paths, but I definitely don't agree with your premise that there is a "better chance of getting hired".
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:04 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Hacker15e View Post
I have read this statement at least 5 times, and still have no idea what you're trying to say.

Non-current (but otherwise qualified) military guys who go to the regionals, barring some kind of really serious skeleton in the closet, are nearly certain to be hired into a major job.

If anything, that's a *more certain* path to the majors than it is to be hired directly out of active military flying service, as the majors highly value pilots with both military *and* 121 airline training and flying experience.

Now, there is definitely a timeline difference between the two paths, but I definitely don't agree with your premise that there is a "better chance of getting hired".
Let me see if I can articulate better.

Odds are better of getting picked up on terminal leave from flying orders than getting picked up immediately after showing up to a regional after a 12-18 months non flight current.

The poster is worried about adding an extra time to their timeline by taking a 2 year commitment for flying orders vs adding 15 months by taking boat orders and going non flight current.

15 months non flight current boat tour (with school enroute) plus 6-9 months for regional timeline before they hit the 100-200 flight currency mark.

The timeline is a wash but I know more guys from that community hired off of terminal leave from flying orders than I know that weíre picked up as soon as they were flight current. The 3-6 month touch and go at a regional thing is more for tactical jet folks. MPRA folks are seeing more like 12+ months.

Passing up flying orders to go non flight current to get out slightly earlier (less than a year sooner) will likely cause a greater time delay in getting picked up at a career destination.
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:03 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Phoenix21 View Post
Let me see if I can articulate better.

The poster is worried about adding an extra time to their timeline by taking a 2 year commitment for flying orders vs adding 15 months by taking boat orders and going non flight current.

15 months non flight current boat tour (with school enroute) plus 6-9 months for regional timeline before they hit the 100-200 flight currency mark.
So for the most cases guys in the P-3/8 FRS only have 12-13 months until separation when finish their FRS tour. Barring a terrible boat CO that doesn't approve terminal leave (2 months), you'd really only be out of the plane 10-11 months from last flight to first day of availability. So assuming you get a job interview 3 months prior to your availability you could in theory still have 100 hrs if the FRS allows you to work the schedule hard your last few months.

That is more of what I was asking. Not doing an 18 month boat tour without even a valid NATOPS check.

Even if you had to do 6 months at a regional it would be 6 months earlier than if you had to fulfill 24 month orders. Pretty specific example, but if that was the case would you bet on yourself and get out early? Only positive of staying for the 24 month flying orders is breaking 1000' PIC (obviously a factor if targeting FEDEX for example)
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:28 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by P8Bubba View Post
Even if you had to do 6 months at a regional
If someone non-current/recent goes to a regional, 6 months to sitting in indoc as a newhire at a major would be a very optimistic timeline.

With a 2-3 month training timeline, that only leaves 3+ months to get your 100 or 200 hour lookback, get an interview call, ace the interview, and then class up at a major.

It would be realistic to be getting the major interview calls by the 6 month mark, but then however long the interview/background check/class assignment timeline takes after that.
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:30 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by P8Bubba View Post
So assuming you get a job interview 3 months prior to your availability you could in theory still have 100 hrs if the FRS allows you to work the schedule hard your last few months.
If you are already invited to the interview, you don't need to be concerned about recency of experience -- recency/currency is a discriminator that is used before they've even decided who to call.
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:34 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Hacker15e View Post
If someone non-current/recent goes to a regional, 6 months to sitting in indoc as a newhire at a major would be a very optimistic timeline.

With a 2-3 month training timeline, that only leaves 3+ months to get your 100 or 200 hour lookback, get an interview call, ace the interview, and then class up at a major.

It would be realistic to be getting the major interview calls by the 6 month mark, but then however long the interview/background check/class assignment timeline takes after that.
So then safer bet is probably the 24 month flying orders since you would leave current and check the 1000 PIC block, rather than rolling the dice on a 3 month window where you could get a call while you are still recent/current?
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by P8Bubba View Post
So for the most cases guys in the P-3/8 FRS only have 12-13 months until separation when finish their FRS tour. Barring a terrible boat CO that doesn't approve terminal leave (2 months), you'd really only be out of the plane 10-11 months from last flight to first day of availability. So assuming you get a job interview 3 months prior to your availability you could in theory still have 100 hrs if the FRS allows you to work the schedule hard your last few months.

That is more of what I was asking. Not doing an 18 month boat tour without even a valid NATOPS check.

Even if you had to do 6 months at a regional it would be 6 months earlier than if you had to fulfill 24 month orders. Pretty specific example, but if that was the case would you bet on yourself and get out early? Only positive of staying for the 24 month flying orders is breaking 1000' PIC (obviously a factor if targeting FEDEX for example)
I would absolutely stay flight current if at all possible. Historically MPRA guys who are lower on time and aren’t current haven’t been getting scooped up from the regionals with the quickness that hornet pilots et al do. 6 months at a regional after going non current is highly optimistic. Things change all the time so who knows if that will too.

There’s a lot stuff that would easily derail the timeline you posted... schools enroute to the boat (your 12 month counter doesn’t start until you check in)... boat schedule preventing full terminal leave being taken (seen it happen)... regional training backlog (highly likely these days at many regionals)... stuck on reserve flying very little after completing training (happens a fair bit).

Relatively small sample size but folks I know who went the Dallas/U route transitioned to the majors immediately. I know a bunch of dudes who went to the boat after their last flying tour who have their apps out and been waiting well past 6 months to get to a major.
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Old 02-23-2019, 03:40 AM
  #28  
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One more question on hours. Does anyone know if the Airlines are actually taking Simulator time into consideration? You have to put it on the app, but does it matter?

The Marine Corps KC-130J no longer uses an FRS. All initial students from flight school go to what is called the Fleet Replacement Detachment (FRD) for 6 months. After six months and about 140 hrs in a full flight simulator (Level D), the students move on the the fleet squadron where they get 4 flights and then a checkride in the aircraft. Thatís a significant chunk of time that students (and all the IPs it puts out of a job!) are not getting actual time in the aircraft. Overall, itís the correct way to train. Cheaper, safer, and more complete EP training. Iím only wondering if itís putting people in a disadvantaged state when it comes to logbooks.

Iíd say the typical fleet guy leaves a VMGR with well over 200 hrs in the sim. Does any of that count/matter to those reviewing applications?

What other military aircraft are using this model now?


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Old 02-23-2019, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyingHercs View Post
One more question on hours. Does anyone know if the Airlines are actually taking Simulator time into consideration? You have to put it on the app, but does it matter?

The Marine Corps KC-130J no longer uses an FRS. All initial students from flight school go to what is called the Fleet Replacement Detachment (FRD) for 6 months. After six months and about 140 hrs in a full flight simulator (Level D), the students move on the the fleet squadron where they get 4 flights and then a checkride in the aircraft. Thatís a significant chunk of time that students (and all the IPs it puts out of a job!) are not getting actual time in the aircraft. Overall, itís the correct way to train. Cheaper, safer, and more complete EP training. Iím only wondering if itís putting people in a disadvantaged state when it comes to logbooks.

Iíd say the typical fleet guy leaves a VMGR with well over 200 hrs in the sim. Does any of that count/matter to those reviewing applications?

What other military aircraft are using this model now?


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Yet another reason why military (in my experience) hours aren't necessarily representative of flight experience. Over the course of a military career it would be nothing to have 15-20% of your time in a simulator... never happen commercially. Traditionally, simulator time isn't included in flight times -- and I'd hate to be sitting across the table at an interview logbook review attempting to explain it.


Ultimately, HR is taking a gamble with every hire. They hedge their bets when they hire based on previous experience and know the product they are hiring based on past experience. All that to say, the overall experience package is built into the numbers.

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Old 02-23-2019, 05:49 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by FlyingHercs View Post
One more question on hours. Does anyone know if the Airlines are actually taking Simulator time into consideration? You have to put it on the app, but does it matter?

The Marine Corps KC-130J no longer uses an FRS. All initial students from flight school go to what is called the Fleet Replacement Detachment (FRD) for 6 months. After six months and about 140 hrs in a full flight simulator (Level D), the students move on the the fleet squadron where they get 4 flights and then a checkride in the aircraft. Thatís a significant chunk of time that students (and all the IPs it puts out of a job!) are not getting actual time in the aircraft. Overall, itís the correct way to train. Cheaper, safer, and more complete EP training. Iím only wondering if itís putting people in a disadvantaged state when it comes to logbooks.

Iíd say the typical fleet guy leaves a VMGR with well over 200 hrs in the sim. Does any of that count/matter to those reviewing applications?

What other military aircraft are using this model now?


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Initial qual training for many USAF heavies (C-17, C-5, C-130, etc) do the exact same thing.
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