Jetnfast

FWIW I logged all UPT time as Dual and for others that don't consider dual I logged it as SIC. Seems straightforward.

tunes

no one is saying count your UPT time as PIC, all that paragraph does is clarify PIC...so I still don't understand what you are saying.

crewdawg

Shack!

Plenty of friends have been hired by DAL/UAL/FedEx/SWA, that used this same method. UPT time is still time in the air so, at the very least, should count for total time. Most even counted their solo time in UPT as PIC, gasp!

Chris99

Like crewdawg said, solo time in UPT can be counted as PIC. Someone had to be PIC of those flights!

FlyFastLiveSlow

I think my IP signed for jet on my first Tweet solo. I carried his wings with me so I think he gets PIC for that one.

ghilis101

Here's my guide to logging time, that has never given me problems. This is the most conservative way to log mil time IMO:

1)if you signed for it, you are PIC. If you were solo in UPT you are obviously PIC

2)check your SARMS printout, there's no way to track when you were the PIC (when you were coded as MP or above) so its all honor system. I think the airlines recognize that once you're an MP, you can log 90+% your time thereafter as PIC.

3)PRI/SEC time don't exist in the FAA's mind. Use total duration of the flight, you were either PIC for the duration, or you weren't. (IP time is different, but as an IP, you are PIC for the duration, and possibly IP for less than duration). If you were SIC on that flight as a Copilot coded or FP coded, see #4

4) OTHER time- If you really want the easy way to defend your logbook, take ALL of your OTHER time prior to AC upgrade, and throw it out. That's right, take it all out. Then, after AC upgrade, your OTHER time will be PIC time when youre the PIC of the flight, because youre still responsible for the aircraft when youre in the bunk. This is valid for the FAA (When I'm PIC on a 12 hour airline flight, I can only legally be in the seat for 8 hours, but even when i'm on my 4 hour break, im still the PIC of the aircraft).

MikeF16

You are mixing apples and oranges. SWA does not allow UPT time under any circumstances, save solo PIC. AA allows the student time, but they specify to log it as SIC. You are reading from one post where I'm replying to a SWA query but using AA rules.

ghilis101

what is it about UPT time that cant be counted for SWA? What if we already had our PPL's prior to entering UPT? It would then count, right?

Nextlife

Good point. I hadn't thought of MIL hours logged after having a PPL. In the FAA world, I don't know how those would be different than Dual Received working on an instrument ticket after getting a PPL, unless SWA doesn't allow using any Dual Received.

MikeF16 - are you basing the UPT hours counting restriction on what's been cut and pasted a few times above or on something on the actual application page (haven't seen it)? Based on what's been posted above, seems pretty clear to me that they are only clarifying counting MIL PIC time, not total time. Again, I haven't seen the application or how they specify inputing hours there, only what I've read on the SWA page.

tunes

I still don't see why you are saying that...you keep quoting their definition of PIC....which no one is arguing with you about. It doesn't say anywhere that you can't count UPT/student tome with Southwest....if it says that and I'm just missing it, I apologize but I haven't seen that anywhere.