To VSP or not to VSP?
02-04-2014 | 10:09 PM
#71
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: 737 right
Absolutely. I will definitely be doing that as well. I have a good friend at Delta who seems to think he can get me hired this fall with 2000 Total Time and 1500 TPIC. It may be a long shot, but I will be using my CFI to get every last bit of hours on the side that I can get as I head out the door.
02-06-2014 | 06:30 AM
#74
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From: 737 right
I have no doubt in my mind I don't want to be a part of this organization anymore. The only thing I give a **** about anymore is my flag and the guys I am serving next to.
02-06-2014 | 07:50 AM
#75
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That is exactly what happened to me, Fly. Was told I was eligible for TERA, had my Chief of Personnel call AFPC directly to confirm I was eligible (they said I was), showed my cards to my boss (he was actually supportive), did the initial AFPC online eligibility check/confirmation (they confirmed I was eligible), I officially applied online for retirement per the PDSM instructions... and was told by AFPC that my application was denied BECAUSE I WAS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR TERA!!! I got an assignment back to fly for my last 2 yrs that I worked myself on the same day, so I'll ride it out and get my full retirement and a bunch more hours of IP/PIC time to put on my Apps on Uncle Sugar's dime collecting six figures along the way, but this is no way to run a Rodeo! You can't mess with people's lives like this and then expect them to trust a single word they have to say.
02-06-2014 | 08:00 AM
#76
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From: 737 right
That is exactly what happened to me, Fly. Was told I was eligible for TERA, had my Chief of Personnel call AFPC directly to confirm I was eligible (they said I was), showed my cards to my boss (he was actually supportive), did the initial AFPC online eligibility check/confirmation (they confirmed I was eligible), I officially applied online for retirement per the PDSM instructions... and was told by AFPC that my application was denied BECAUSE I WAS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR TERA!!! I got an assignment back to fly for my last 2 yrs that I worked myself on the same day, so I'll ride it out and get my full retirement and a bunch more hours of IP/PIC time to put on my Apps on Uncle Sugar's dime collecting six figures along the way, but this is no way to run a Rodeo! You can't mess with people's lives like this and then expect them to trust a single word they have to say.
02-07-2014 | 04:52 PM
#77
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Good timing, low hours.
My advice:
Make the jump if your family can survive the pay cut ONLY and ONLY IF you can get a reserve job. The reserve job probably isn't going to afford you a big paycheck with the recent cut backs and the most certain future cut backs. But if you can fly your tail off, you can solve your low flying hours in a year or two.
Momma and the kids are going to hate you if you do the regional only gig and you're gone from home 20-something days a month and barely making enough money to feed and keep the lights on. If you do it, live near your pilot domicile. That way you'll see them more often.
If at all possible, DO NOT spend the VSP money. Bank it. Let it grow. If you stay in the reserves to get a retirement, you'll have to pay it back. But if you invest it and allow it to grow, you will make something off of it. If you plan on using it to survive, you are taking a big chance that in a year from now, you'll be out of money and working for a regional in a much worse financial situation. Also, any number of political and financial issues can cause the pilot hiring to stop temporarily for a year which would be devastating for you stuck at a regional.
Your flying time is low; however, as a FAIP you should have a lot of Instructor time which is a bonus .. UNLESS it is in the T-6 which isn't as desirable. Airlines much prefer multi-engine over single-engine.
Delta doesn't have a PIC requirement. You meet the mins. But I suspect Delta is hiring only those with a lot of experience. You need to find out exactly who is getting hired by who and with what hours. I know friends with double the flying time and experience who have not been called.
Can you get a reserve job at the training command? Continuing to build PIC time / instructor time would be very beneficial.
Stupid question ... what is the timing of the VSP and the potential RIF? Let's assume you stay, how long do you think it would be before you were RIFd? When I went through the VSP fiasco, the VSPers had well up to a year to stay after their VSP award. The RIF never came for my year group. So potentially, you could have a full year or more before you were let go. Depending on what you're flying, a year or two more experience is valuable in your case.
I hope my random thoughts help. I made the jump back in '07 and I haven't looked back. It was scary. But, I didn't have a family to take care of. Good luck.
My advice:
Make the jump if your family can survive the pay cut ONLY and ONLY IF you can get a reserve job. The reserve job probably isn't going to afford you a big paycheck with the recent cut backs and the most certain future cut backs. But if you can fly your tail off, you can solve your low flying hours in a year or two.
Momma and the kids are going to hate you if you do the regional only gig and you're gone from home 20-something days a month and barely making enough money to feed and keep the lights on. If you do it, live near your pilot domicile. That way you'll see them more often.
If at all possible, DO NOT spend the VSP money. Bank it. Let it grow. If you stay in the reserves to get a retirement, you'll have to pay it back. But if you invest it and allow it to grow, you will make something off of it. If you plan on using it to survive, you are taking a big chance that in a year from now, you'll be out of money and working for a regional in a much worse financial situation. Also, any number of political and financial issues can cause the pilot hiring to stop temporarily for a year which would be devastating for you stuck at a regional.
Your flying time is low; however, as a FAIP you should have a lot of Instructor time which is a bonus .. UNLESS it is in the T-6 which isn't as desirable. Airlines much prefer multi-engine over single-engine.
Delta doesn't have a PIC requirement. You meet the mins. But I suspect Delta is hiring only those with a lot of experience. You need to find out exactly who is getting hired by who and with what hours. I know friends with double the flying time and experience who have not been called.
Can you get a reserve job at the training command? Continuing to build PIC time / instructor time would be very beneficial.
Stupid question ... what is the timing of the VSP and the potential RIF? Let's assume you stay, how long do you think it would be before you were RIFd? When I went through the VSP fiasco, the VSPers had well up to a year to stay after their VSP award. The RIF never came for my year group. So potentially, you could have a full year or more before you were let go. Depending on what you're flying, a year or two more experience is valuable in your case.
I hope my random thoughts help. I made the jump back in '07 and I haven't looked back. It was scary. But, I didn't have a family to take care of. Good luck.
02-07-2014 | 09:03 PM
#78
La Familia Delta
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,467
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From: B-717 FO / C-17 AC
has anyone actually been asked to pay it back? Obviously definitely want to put it away somewhere where it will make money or something, so you CAN pay it back if need be... But, don't you guys think the vsp payback will be long forgotten by the time anyone in mil finance decides to ask for it back?
02-07-2014 | 10:11 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: A-300 F/O
I know a few folks from the 1992 RIF who earned active retirements. Uncle Sam came knocking on their doors with his hands out. He wanted his money. Uncle has a long memory, especially when he is so deep in debt. At least it is an interest free payback and not adjusted for inflation.
02-08-2014 | 02:40 PM
#80
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 454
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From: B717 CA
Keep in mind that you pay it back over time with your retirement checks, so if you're still working, it's not that bad. In other words, they don't take it all back in one lump sum. Also, you only have to pay back the after-tax amount. I was refunded about $17,000 that I had paid in taxes (out of about $25,000) the year after I received my VSP and won't ever have to pay that back when I retire. Also, the chances of you getting on enough Active Duty orders for an Active Duty retirement are not that good. In other words, your friend's situation is not the norm. Good info though.
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