MikeF16

Are you trolling or are you really serious that you don't understand this? Where exactly are you going to log it? SWA only has places to log PIC/SIC/IP -- the total time block is automatically added up from the 3 sub-types, you simply cannot add in "student time". You agree it's not PIC, it's obviously not IP, and if you're in the T-37, T-6, or T-38 SIC does not exist since they are not type-rated for multi-piloted operations. The only reason you get to log it as SIC on AA is due to their ** which states they will allow it. The exception does not exist on the SWA page. I don't know how I can be any more clear.

ghilis101

ok I think the best way to resolve this is to go straight to the source

email [email protected] and they'll give you the official answer

crewdawg

Done! E-mail sent a few days ago. I'll post their reply.

Jetnfast

I disagree with you on this point, Beale, Whiteman, Holloman and other bases that utilize the T-38 as a companion trainer log T-38 SIC time. Pilots that aren't IP's receive an initial qual check and rating as an FP. Wen two FP's fly together they both cant log PIC so it's split between Pri and Sec. Depending on the formula used to convert time from Pri/Sec to PIC/SIC, part of the SEC time is converted to SIC.

Spur

You are incorrect. SIC is an FAA flight time designation and can only be logged in an aircraft type certified for multiple pilots. It has nothing to do with PRI/SEC time.

Jetnfast

If that's the case, how should secondary time be logged or converted for FAA/airline log book purposes if flying with two FP's? I would think the front seater would be the "AC" or PIC equivalent, and the back seater logging SIC. The back seater who is qualified in the airplane does not log "other" time.

Spur

Unfortunately is does not convert. So it really depends on how the specific airline you are applying to counts it. I know that I lost a bit of time when applying to FedEx (Dual IPs in T-37), but I didn't want to have to explain to the dude across the table why I logged SIC in a single pilot aircraft. FedEx was pretty clear on how to count flight time.

Other airlines may count it, but to just assume you can log such time as SIC is not correct.

crewdawg

Actually that's exactly how I have logged back seat time. Any time I'm in the back seat of the D-model, I log it as other. Other time counts for nothing for the airlines, I just like having the record of it. I log it as other and Total time in my personal military logbook, but subtract it out when I apply for airlines.

In that scenario, why didn't one of you log PRI and the other IP?

Spur

We did on the AF form, split 50/50. However, I only logged the sortie as PIC if I was a senior in rank or qualification to the other IP.

FLY6584

Well I am 99% sure I am putting in for the VSP on Feb 6th when the window opens and here's why...

1. Now is the best time to get a Guard/Reserve job. It's even better if you can tell a unit that you have already been approved and not someone that is hoping to be approved or hoping to be RIF'd. If I request to be RIF'd and wait until that happens a lot of the Guard/Reserve jobs could be filled already by the guys who VSP'd.

2. The Regional's really don't seem all that bad for a guy with a solid 1500 TPIC going into them. I really don't need to spend a ton of time at the Regional's to try and get to the left seat for that TPIC like our civilian counterparts do. I just need to build my total time, get some 121 experience, and wait for a major to call in 3 years or so especially considering I will still be able to log TPIC in the Guard/Reserves. This also allows me to pick the Regional I want to fly for based on location and not on upgrade times.

3. If I get out now and even have to wait 3 years at a Regional before a Major picks me up that is still 2-3 years earlier than if I had stayed on AD and that's not to say the Air Force won't stop loss guys when they realize they let too many pilots out.

4. I'm one of the guys that never started on my Masters degree so the likelihood of getting passed over twice for Major is high which makes getting a Guard/Reserve job harder because you need a waiver for being twice passed over.

5. I actually walk away with some sort of retirement pay to show for my 7 years of service... I know seven year's isn't a lot, but had I been at a civilian company I would have been contributing to a 401K. If I walk at the 12 year point at the end of my commitment I would walk away with nothing.

6. And the most important reason for leaving now is that I don't have to live in constant fear of receiving an assignment to a UAV and having to spend my last couple of years on AD in a trailer while my recency of experience and hopes of getting hired by an airline go out the door.

The only positives I see to getting RIF'd instead of VSP'd are...
- You get 4 more months of Active Duty pay to save up
- 4 more months of logging TPIC
- 6 months of Tricare after separating through the TAP program
- You don't have to pay it back if you earn a Guard/Reserve retirement