I hope you're not implying that Netjets pilots are immune to furlough because of their union. About 500 pilots would disagree with you.

I agree that Flex still may not be the better career option of the 2. However, since they rid themselves of the union they've made more gains than NJASAP has for NJ pilots.

 

Not talking about furloughs at all. The lack of a union isn't why Flex has achieved so many gains. The current lack of pilot supply is what brought Flex up- pay up to attract and keep pilots or you don't have a viable business. The same reason Delta, Alaska, Spirit, etc... have gotten new contracts with large raises. If Flex is best for you, stick around. I wouldn't, but then again, I'm not sure I'm going to stick around NetJets either. There is no way I'd consider a non union pilot job, but then again, 99.9% of the good pilot positions are unionized. Neither Flex or NetJets are particularly good pilot jobs even with whatever gains they have gotten since one got rid of their union and the other continued to get new, better contracts outside of the normal timelines.

 

I think there is fair number of pilots, both F/O's and CPT's looking at leaving. We're behind in pay and QOL on the road is a joke. Looking at the VAWD's for April that was just published, we have too many pilots that don't understand leverage.

 

The pilots are only taking advantage of what the union screwed up. We lost all our leverage when they didn’t sunset the 2.5 when they had the chance. The company has no reason to negotiate, and are showing it. 50ish people are showing up to class with 1000 hours each and if they stick around 2 years it’s still cheaper than us old 20 plus year folks. Add all the pilots working extra days for 2.5 to the mix, they can wait us out and hope for a recession. BTW.. how many would be extending like crazy for 1.5?

Apparently we do make Delta wages..you just have to work 50 more days a year than they do!

 

Can you contradict yourself anymore? You are saying the lack of Unions is not why Flex has gained, its just due to the pilot shortage just like "Delta, Alaska, Spirit, etc.". So if its SIMPLY due to the pilot shortage and NOT due to more flexibility by not having a Union, why hasnt NJ made the same advancements? Are they not facing a pilot shortage as bad as Delta????

 

This is where I think its funny, on forums you have NJ pilots saying how great the company is, but then they are picketing saying QOL and pay sucks. Thank you for being honest. I have not seen any Flex pilots picketing and they seem to be generally happier then NJ pilots. Its an industry know fact that A. Mesa hires from the bottom of the barrell, and B. NJ pilots have the worst attitude in the FBOs.

 

NetJets has improved things twice since our last section 6 contract and we are working on a third time. Our gains have lead to your gains so that Flex can get and retain pilots. The times the company wanted to give us more money while still under the last contract did not stop us from getting more money. Do you honestly believe Flex would be paying what they do without the pilot shortage? That is the ONLY reason. Do you believe Ricci likes you and wants to give you more money because you don't have a union? He simply knows the cost to continue to get and retain pilots. He still isn't really retaining all the pilots since some are still leaving for NetJets and probably more are leaving for the airlines. Let me know how things work out when there isn't massive pilot demand.

 

Again, you are contradicting yourself...There is a pilot shortage, therefore, pay goes up, basic supply and demand economics we were taught in High School. Then you say "our gains have led to your gains", is it the pilot shortage or your gains? If you believe NJ is the center of the 135/91k market and pay at all operators is a function strictly of NJ, how do you fit your ego into your blazer? There are MANY pilots who are not represented by a union that is making WAY more money then they were in the past are you saying that is due to NJ? Do you believe NJ would be paying you what they are paying you IF THERE WAS NOT A PILOT SHORTAGE just because you have a union? SInce times are good for us (as in pilots) now, you have been able to go back to a well and get concessions (yes, the same concessions Flex has had to give to be comeptitive without a union). When times go bad, do you not think NJ is going to come back to the Union and ask for concessions?

 

And, unlike Netjets pilots who are protected by their CBA, those gains can be taken away at any time, on a whim, by Flex Management.

 

How many times has FJ exceeded NJ’s compensation first?

That answers the question. In the past that answer was never. That may have changed, but if the answer is that FJ increased their compensation to match or barely exceed NJ’s then it is indeed FJ who is matching NJ’s pay, and NJ’s who is leading the way. Both are cognizant of pilot attrition.

The great gains without the union sets aside the fact that the FJ group mind bogglingly voted out their union while their contract award was being arbitrated. I.e., they didn’t wait a few weeks to see what the award was compared to the company offer.