Netjets latest & greatest:
03-17-2017, 11:07 AM
#1961
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 466
Netjets latest & greatest:
Originally Posted by kingairfun
With our current contract TA (expected to pass) as a 5th/6th year widebody FO I am realistically looking at around $240k this year. ( pay+profit sharing+retro for the TA, per doem NOT included)
Next year as a 6/7th year FO with just profit sharing and pay I expect about $210k, per diem NOT included.
One caveat, I can hold Cpt this year on a narrowbody, so I may expect $230ish next year if I decide to do it.
Like I said, I do not have 2000 pay numbers as I was still at a regional. But looking at general numbers from NJA, my 5-7th year numbers aregenerLly doable that of a 10 yr FO and probably very similar to senior Captains at NJA ( although I understand widebody probably pays more at NJA)
My last yr W2 was probably around the $140k range, mybe $145k. That was 4th year, no per diem, and pre contract vote.
And I am not at Delta or United. Fly my line with 15-16 days off a month. No overtime, but do fly high value lines.
Not knocking NJA but tired of your kool aid flavor. A guy unfamiliar with the industry should be informed what they are getting with NJA ( good and bad) and not your " wait for the growth and good things to come" rhetoric from you.
Next year as a 6/7th year FO with just profit sharing and pay I expect about $210k, per diem NOT included.
One caveat, I can hold Cpt this year on a narrowbody, so I may expect $230ish next year if I decide to do it.
Like I said, I do not have 2000 pay numbers as I was still at a regional. But looking at general numbers from NJA, my 5-7th year numbers aregenerLly doable that of a 10 yr FO and probably very similar to senior Captains at NJA ( although I understand widebody probably pays more at NJA)
My last yr W2 was probably around the $140k range, mybe $145k. That was 4th year, no per diem, and pre contract vote.
And I am not at Delta or United. Fly my line with 15-16 days off a month. No overtime, but do fly high value lines.
Not knocking NJA but tired of your kool aid flavor. A guy unfamiliar with the industry should be informed what they are getting with NJA ( good and bad) and not your " wait for the growth and good things to come" rhetoric from you.
Good for you! You deserve it all.
Comparing FO scenarios at NJA to FO scenarios at wherever you are at year 7 pay vs newhire pay where you are vs. a PIC at NJA.... my head is swimming in the variables and there are far too many comparative points to make.
Let me make it simple.
Stay. Or go.
But don't do it like Jetlife and poor mouth everyone behind you as you go taking cheap shots on the way.
For the last 13 of 15 years most of 121 didn't do spit for any of us. That's the cycle. It will continue. Choose wisely and embrace your path. NetJets has been a stable employer that has provided reliable income and benefits through most of the 121 storm. For many, pursuing 121 would be silly having secured a PIC position.
And don't be an *******. Many pilots want to wish him well and feel well for him as he's leaving but statements that are condescending towards those remaining and happy are about as welcomed as tits on a boar.
Jetlife missed that subtle nuance enough to where on his way out the door a few people clapped. He's been smug, sarcastic, rude and he really a cocky man on his way out. Those characteristics just rub people wrong in any professional setting.
Regarding growth... it's coming. The aircraft orders will come too in time. The management team is making some real smart choices, the Union is in sync, the sales are there. Once fleet replacement gets down the road a bit and the sims are in place, pilots ranks will increase again to accommodate sales as the successive frames join the company.
Regarding compensation and retirement, those will enhance at NJA too. It's a young company in comparison to 121. Each contract gains more (despite Jetlife's poor math). Each contract shows gains in many areas consistent with professional aviation career options... but comparing 3 contracts with Delta's 50 is a bit short sighted, especially because Delta pay has not yet restored to ore 9/11 values. We bargain each round and gain based on a growth and profitability.
Basically... NJA is going to grow and the next round should be quite lucrative for all is my feeling.
Believe it. Don't believe it. Either way, NJA is trending up since 9/11. 121 has failed to recover even today to pre 9/11 levels.
UAL 747 pay was $404 per hour in CBA 2000. Today? Nope.
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Last edited by FLYLOW22; 03-17-2017 at 11:27 AM.
03-17-2017, 11:25 AM
#1962
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Originally Posted by FLYLOW22
Not everyone... you.
As the junior dude.
I just hope for you that Age 67 doesn't prolong the magic for 2 years in order to get you off reserve and flying days.
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As the junior dude.
I just hope for you that Age 67 doesn't prolong the magic for 2 years in order to get you off reserve and flying days.
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Enjoy retiring at 90 on the bottom of the Latitude list.
03-17-2017, 11:29 AM
#1963
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 466
Netjets latest & greatest:
Originally Posted by Jetlife
Yea again you don't have your pulse on the industry. We're upgrading 47 captains this year, and we are a quarter of the size. I'll have more FOs below me THIS YEAR than everyone hired post furlough at NJA will have at year 4 seniority.
Enjoy retiring at 90 on the bottom of the Latitude list.
Enjoy retiring at 90 on the bottom of the Latitude list.
And there's that Jetlife charm that has you so well known.
The last points tell it all.
🤦
To any young pilots out there looking for examples of "how to do it right"... this isn't it.
There's a reason why only Virgin called. Maybe a Delta next year.
Although they hire for attitude as well.
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03-17-2017, 11:30 AM
#1964
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,222
Originally Posted by FLYLOW22
Good for you! You deserve it all.
Comparing FO scenarios at NJA to FO scenarios at wherever you are at year 7 pay vs newhire pay where you are vs. a PIC at NJA.... my head is swimming in the variables and there are far too many comparative points to make.
Let me make it simple.
Stay. Or go.
But don't do it like Jetlife and poor mouth everyone behind you as you go taking cheap shots on the way.
For the last 13 of 15 years most of 121 didn't do spit for any of us. That's the cycle. It will continue. Choose wisely and embrace your path. NetJets has been a stable employer that has provided reliable income and benefits through most of the 121 storm. For many, pursuing 121 would be silly having secured a PIC position.
And don't be an *******. Many pilots want to wish him well and feel well for him as he's leaving but statements that are condescending towards those remaining and happy are about as welcomed as tits on a boar.
Jetlife missed that subtle nuance enough to where on his way out the door a few people clapped. He's been smug, sarcastic, rude and he really a cocky man on his way out. Those characteristics just run people wrong.
Regarding growth... it's coming. The aircraft orders will come too in time. The management team is making some real smart choices, the Union is in sync, the sales are there. Once fleet replacement gets down the road a bit and the sims are in place, pilots ranks will increase again to accommodate sales as the successive frames join the company.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Comparing FO scenarios at NJA to FO scenarios at wherever you are at year 7 pay vs newhire pay where you are vs. a PIC at NJA.... my head is swimming in the variables and there are far too many comparative points to make.
Let me make it simple.
Stay. Or go.
But don't do it like Jetlife and poor mouth everyone behind you as you go taking cheap shots on the way.
For the last 13 of 15 years most of 121 didn't do spit for any of us. That's the cycle. It will continue. Choose wisely and embrace your path. NetJets has been a stable employer that has provided reliable income and benefits through most of the 121 storm. For many, pursuing 121 would be silly having secured a PIC position.
And don't be an *******. Many pilots want to wish him well and feel well for him as he's leaving but statements that are condescending towards those remaining and happy are about as welcomed as tits on a boar.
Jetlife missed that subtle nuance enough to where on his way out the door a few people clapped. He's been smug, sarcastic, rude and he really a cocky man on his way out. Those characteristics just run people wrong.
Regarding growth... it's coming. The aircraft orders will come too in time. The management team is making some real smart choices, the Union is in sync, the sales are there. Once fleet replacement gets down the road a bit and the sims are in place, pilots ranks will increase again to accommodate sales as the successive frames join the company.
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Like the past 15 years....
NJA----5 yrs of furloughs and no real upgrades since roughly 2005
Legacy carriers-----depending on the airline, 5 years of furloughs but increasing pay and massive upgrade opportunities.
I have friends that were hired by Cont. In 2006 or Delta in 2008. So those carriers were certainly hiring. As well as my carrier by 2008. My firends are Captains at their Legacies, while I was furlough and forced to change directions at NJA.
NJA may grow like you say. But until they make a large a/c order or announce large hiring plans. OR UNTIL THEY START UPGRADING appreciable numbers for a long duration. What we are left with are the facts at hand. Jeylife may be very vocal over there, but some of his points are very valid.
You have discredited yourself at times. Even with Jetlife and the JFK base, trans- con commute etc etc..
I warned him about some of the pitfalls of NJA when he was applying. But like most of the Ameriflight guys I know, he thought he knew everything. But that doesnt necessarily make him wrong about some of the NJA stuff.
I'll say it again. NJA is a good company. It works well for alot of people. But someone looking at NJA vs. A Legacy should know the facts.
03-17-2017, 11:33 AM
#1965
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Originally Posted by FLYLOW22
Jetlife missed that subtle nuance enough to where on his way out the door a few people clapped. He's been smug, sarcastic, rude and he really a cocky man on his way out. Those characteristics just rub people wrong in any professional setting.
Believe it. Don't believe it. Either way, NJA is trending up since 9/11. 121 has failed to recover even today to pre 9/11 levels.
UAL 747 pay was $404 per hour in CBA 2000. Today? Nope.
[/IMG]
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As for pay, you're criticizing UAL because pay isn't back to where it was in 2000, in 2000 NJA was making 28k, so that somehow makes NJA better for the arguement because it's gone up yet it still isn't close to comparable pay scales at the legacies, give me a break, you're the only one that operates in that reality.
03-17-2017, 11:34 AM
#1966
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 466
Originally Posted by kingairfun
my point to you is you have to be a bit more realistic, because at this point most of what you say doesn't come across as believable because of the apparen "blinders".
Like the past 15 years....
NJA----5 yrs of furloughs and no real upgrades since roughly 2005
Legacy carriers-----depending on the airline, 5 years of furloughs but increasing pay and massive upgrade opportunities.
I have friends that were hired by Cont. In 2006 or Delta in 2008. So those carriers were certainly hiring. As well as my carrier by 2008. My firends are Captains at their Legacies, while I was furlough and forced to change directions at NJA.
NJA may grow like you say. But until they make a large a/c order or announce large hiring plans. OR UNTIL THEY START UPGRADING appreciable numbers for a long duration. What we are left with are the facts at hand. Jeylife may be very vocal over there, but some of his points are very valid.
You have discredited yourself at times. Even with Jetlife and the JFK base, trans- con commute etc etc..
I warned him about some of the pitfalls of NJA when he was applying. But like most of the Ameriflight guys I know, he thought he knew everything. But that doesnt necessarily make him wrong about some of the NJA stuff.
I'll say it again. NJA is a good company. It works well for alot of people. But someone looking at NJA vs. A Legacy should know the facts.
Like the past 15 years....
NJA----5 yrs of furloughs and no real upgrades since roughly 2005
Legacy carriers-----depending on the airline, 5 years of furloughs but increasing pay and massive upgrade opportunities.
I have friends that were hired by Cont. In 2006 or Delta in 2008. So those carriers were certainly hiring. As well as my carrier by 2008. My firends are Captains at their Legacies, while I was furlough and forced to change directions at NJA.
NJA may grow like you say. But until they make a large a/c order or announce large hiring plans. OR UNTIL THEY START UPGRADING appreciable numbers for a long duration. What we are left with are the facts at hand. Jeylife may be very vocal over there, but some of his points are very valid.
You have discredited yourself at times. Even with Jetlife and the JFK base, trans- con commute etc etc..
I warned him about some of the pitfalls of NJA when he was applying. But like most of the Ameriflight guys I know, he thought he knew everything. But that doesnt necessarily make him wrong about some of the NJA stuff.
I'll say it again. NJA is a good company. It works well for alot of people. But someone looking at NJA vs. A Legacy should know the facts.
The view with 2017 seniority is very different than 15-20 years ago.
But isn't that the case everywhere? Things can change in an instant.
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03-17-2017, 11:35 AM
#1967
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 466
Originally Posted by Jetlife
I've been cocky as I've left? Hardly. You take every opportunity during a discussion regarding something that isn't overtly flattering about NetJets and you battle them with condescending responses. You aren't happy for anyone, you really aren't. Rather, you are bitter because you lost out on the oppettunity. You've said it yourself many times that Kit Darby lied to you. You are somebody who had a taste, lost it, and never got it back. That isn't my fault, and it doesn't automatically make NetJets great so stop making everyone pay the price for your suffering. I don't think I'm better than you or anyone else, I've said that many times. But you take company criticism personally and immaturely, that's been e
What was the line about describing those at NJA as "beat by the industry".
Please. Illuminate for us again how that works Mr. Humble.
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03-17-2017, 12:57 PM
#1968
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Originally Posted by FLYLOW22
And there's that Jetlife charm that has you so well known.
The last points tell it all.
��
To any young pilots out there looking for examples of "how to do it right"... this isn't it.
There's a reason why only Virgin called. Maybe a Delta next year.
Although they hire for attitude as well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The last points tell it all.
��
To any young pilots out there looking for examples of "how to do it right"... this isn't it.
There's a reason why only Virgin called. Maybe a Delta next year.
Although they hire for attitude as well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You have no idea who called or didn't, but you are still at NetJets which signifies that nobody called you, that much we do know, blame Kit Darby right?
I have an excellent attitude, I am not bitter nor am I bitter while flying. Again you judge based on a merry go round that you threw us both into. Me arguing against your unfounded positive claims about NetJets doesn't make somebody bitter.
03-17-2017, 01:11 PM
#1969
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 466
Netjets latest & greatest:
Originally Posted by Jetlife
Scroll through the last couple of pages, I have dumbed down to your level to even the playing field, you jab me I am gonna jab you right back.
You have no idea who called or didn't, but you are still at NetJets which signifies that nobody called you, that much we do know, blame Kit Darby right?
I have an excellent attitude, I am not bitter nor am I bitter while flying. Again you judge based on a merry go round that you threw us both into. Me arguing against your unfounded positive claims about NetJets doesn't make somebody bitter.
You have no idea who called or didn't, but you are still at NetJets which signifies that nobody called you, that much we do know, blame Kit Darby right?
I have an excellent attitude, I am not bitter nor am I bitter while flying. Again you judge based on a merry go round that you threw us both into. Me arguing against your unfounded positive claims about NetJets doesn't make somebody bitter.
I would need to apply somewhere to get a call.
I already achieved that call at age 23.
I elected not to return for a myriad of reasons almost a decade ago.
Anyone wanting to try for something different, I applaud your efforts.
As for me... I happy here... hence my lack of applications. I'd never recoup the money starting over now for the lack of commute and other niceties of my situation.
Been there. Done that. NJA works great for me and many others.
When are you going to focus your message board efforts on Virgins board? Should I go introduce you to your new busies?
Why the macabre interest in things you've got in your rear view?
Man o man... look at the finger pointing!!
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Last edited by FLYLOW22; 03-17-2017 at 01:38 PM.
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