kingairfun

Spoken like a guy who just got hired...

Aug 2005 is/was the date of the most junior Captain hired into the Beechjet.... And that was only because of many bypasses...

That guy probably upgraded around 2007..... There hasn't been an upgrade to anyone Junior to that guy in 8+ years...( let alone upgrades in general.)

I haven't seen the seniority list in 2-3 months... But I'd guess guys getting hired this year have atleast 700 pilots ahead of them for upgrade....with no retirement age and no real growth even at 50 upgrades a year ( which NJA hasn't seen in almost a decade) it would take 14 years conservatively....

Remember, NJA had 3100 pilots and over 500 a/c on property in 2009... And managed to get by with the current Captain staffing.... NJA is no where near 500 a/c to my knowledge....

Bottom line, upgrades are ridiculously long and no real a/c movement....

NJA is a alright job for a young FO, lower time guy or someone coming from a "lesser" QOL company.. ( I got hired around 29 so $80k living in a cheaper town was a pretty good deal..) but the schedule sucked and at that time upgrades were still a possibility.... But approach your 40's and being an 10 year FO on the 18 day for less than $100k is not so appealing.

I agree that NJA will be compared to XOJet, Flex and the like.... Bottom line is the general public still considers the popular Legacy/Major airlines the end all be all, and no matter what the NJA pilots experience/background/job requirements, no judge is going to compare them to a Delta long haul international pilot....

The only way NJASAP gets SWA +1 is by beating the company down enough that they give in...

Packrat

I hope everyone who is dissatisfied takes this hiring wave in the Majors as an opportunity to jump ship. Maybe that will shorten the upgrade time.

eglplt

May I make a suggestion? I would sit back and spend a few months learning about the company I just went to work for instead of thinking I am an expert on all NJA. This post shows just how little you know about this company. The guys you mention in the above post, have an incredible amount of seniority in order to make these moves. You were placed in the Phenom, I would suggest you get comfortable as you will be in that seat for a very, very, very long time.

jaybird

LOL tell that to the nine and 10 year FO's who can't even bid the same seat in another aircraft because all new hires are being placed where management decides.

To make myself clear, after almost 10 years a FO can't bid the 800/900, X, 2000, etc because there are no open bids. All new hires are being placed in those seats.

mooneymite

Brings to mind a quotation from Dante:

>>>Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.<<<

("Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.")

The pay is "just enough" to keep some here, but the future is bleak.

flyguy37

What he said. This is not the worst place to be but lets keep it real. Most attrition to the majors (currently just a few a month despite what people want to think)will be FOs so that won't really help the upgrade situation as we are still over 70 percent captains. There will not be true upgrades for another year or more. Crap the last Phenom Capt bid went to a bunch of CE-680 and XL captains for some strange reason. Everytime a Global SIC bid comes out some senior captain grabs it. Between these moves and displacement bids there will be little to no FO fleet swapping. The 39 month equipment lock won't really even factor in. All we can hope for is a great contract that pays FOs well or majors start picking us all up.

Glad to have you on board jetlife. We need all the help we can get.

mooneymite

+1

Ain't that the truth!

Junglejett

Honestly, I could care less if I upgrade. Upgrading means talking to the company on a regular basis...that's damn near a show stopper for me.

Jetlife

Guys I know I just got hired. Of course you guys know more than I do on the ins and outs. But there seems to be a common focus from a certain group of pilots at NJA that paint the worst case scenario picture for everyone around them. Whether it be in the FBO or online. Saying that people aren't moving airplanes at all, period, would be false based on whom I have talked to doing initials . To say that nobody is upgrading is false based on a bid being issued. Does that mean everyone is swapping fleets and upgrading? Hell no! Of course it does nothing for the 9 year FO who is still waiting, it's 2 spots in a sea of willing and able FOs ready to upgrade. But can't anyone see ANY positivity in the way things are going? NetJets has recalled, they are hiring... These are good things people. I get that there is a lot of frustration but why take everything as glass half empty around here?

I am starting to get the feeling that pay isn't going to fix everyone's gripes with the company, so why stick around? Money won't fix upgrades or fleet swapping... It will only make things worse in those aspects.

I can only say that I hope new hires placed into aircraft that you guys wan't, aren't treated differently for it. We are all here to fight the fight with you, not against you. My post wasn't to cause crap, and I don't know more than you guys who have been around I promise you I understand that. I just go by who I have talked to, and the emails I have seen. To say any absolutes is false and incorrect in my opinion.

frmrdashtrash

Jet, a PIC bid at Netjets does not mean an upgrade. At some point that will change, but for the moment those new PIC bids will be awarded to someone who is already a captain.