PrettyFlyGuy

Thanks for the reply! I wonder why they wouldn't at least respond. Just a common courtesy I would think to keep a good name in the pilot world.
As for working for that guy they make six figures working 2 days a week and no holidays so I would be alright with that haha! I got clarification from him today and he said all but one of their guys has significant single pilot IFR experience and those are the first guys they interview so I'm assuming that eliminates a lot of guys who went straight 121. I wasn't trying to hate on anyone just mentioning what I was told.

ThomasMagnum

Interesting. I would put the guys with no CRM or jet experience in line way before an airline guy, too. Sounds like a great place to work.

USMCFLYR

So you have never heard of single pilot CRM?

2StgTurbine

In my experience, a pilot that doesn't know how to work with another pilot ends up causing issues and eventually needs to be replaced (which costs money). Not valuing people with crew experience is a great way to get a dysfunctional pilot group.

I'm not saying only pilots with multi-crew experience are good, but the last few pilots my company had issues with didn't have a problem flying an ILS, they had problems sharing the cockpit with another pilot.

USMCFLYR

Believing that pilots who have only flown single pilot ops don't know anything about CRM is wrong. Single pilot CRM is huge in the single seat communities in the military. I was the CRM Model Manager for the USN/USMC Hornet community. We spent a lot of time ingraining CRM into the single seat community.

Coming to my present job was my first multi-crewed cockpit. Multi-crew CRM was the easiest of all the transitions. Just talk a bunch!


If anyone thinks that CRM is only between the two pilots - then they are not up to speed on the growth of CRM. ATC, FAs, other crew members in the airplane, dispatch, operations, schedulers, wingmen (if you have any), etc... are all part of the pie now.

If your company had problems with pilots who couldn't share the cockpit - then they hired pilots with poor CRM skills. Those lack of skills were probably present whether they flew single seat/pilot operations or multi-crew airplanes.

2StgTurbine

That wasn't a dig at you. We don't see too many fighter pilot resumes at my company. I am referring to typical entry-level jet jobs that the OP will be getting.

The OP is about to make some major career decisions based on what the pilot in charge of hiring thinks. Giving up a job good job that would allow the OP to get some crew experience because he thinks he needs to build IFR time is a mistake. After my first CFI job, my IFR time was never the thing that got me my next job, but my type ratings, crew experience, 121 and 135 experience, and turbine experience did.

USMCFLYR

My comment was ONLY related to the presence - or lack thereof - of CRM skills obtained in either a single pilot operation -vs- multi pilot operation.
I believe CRM skills can be obtained from either position.

I disagree with TM's contention that a person with single pilot operating experience is lacking in CRM skills SOLELY because he has not been operating in a multi-crew environment.
Even outside the military a pilot *usually* gets CRM experience from being a flight instructor or possibly from having some other jobs requiring operating, or coordination with, others to achieve success.

If this future chief pilot doesn't want to hire former airline pilots then that will limit the available pool of highly qualified pilots. If they can find the right pilot using that smaller pool then more power to them. It is no different than some other employer deciding they don't want to hire a pilot which has a bust somewhere in their history.
Maybe this organization has been bitten a few too many times with pilot's leaving sooner than they thought they got a return on their investment or maybe like you had a few bad experiences with CRM recently - this company had a few bad experiences with the customer service aspects of former airline pilots.

I'd think that if this guy is going to be the new chief pilot, or in any position to make hiring decisions in the future, that he might be able to change that part of the culture - especially if he is practically trying to groom a pilot for a future position.

ThomasMagnum

I stand firmly behind my statement. Its just a generalized observation based on the hundreds of folks that Ive flown with as both SIC,PIC,121,135, etc. Now that the TMC thread has been hijacked, lets get it pointed back to a TMC related topic, and not the age old 91/135/121 ****ing contest.

PrettyFlyGuy

Well my original question was do guys get hired at minimums here since there seems to be lots of turnover. Everyone took one comment from my long post and turned it in to an insult.
So does anyone know if they hire at their mins? Not the preferred mins. They only say 1000tt to be eligible on their ad with no mention of multi. And my original second question was what other entry level places are in this side of the industry?

solaero

They have. A couple of times that I know of. Maybe more. However, currently, I don't know what's going on.