Do you realize by passing this TA, you end up making less money? How can you feed yourself and family while making less money.

 

I beg your pardon, but most folks will make MORE. Quicker upgrade. We get a raise too- we get the airplanes at the negotiated -900/175 rate. So unless you are a year 11 captain getting capped, or similar scenario.... You're wrong. Or you can re word what you're saying to take the caps into account by those it'll affect. But if you aren't affected by a cap, most FOs are looking at gaining tens of thousands of dollars due to upgrade. We are currently stagnant as anything. 0 movement.

 

So what happens if your pilots vote in this TA and then your 200s go away?

 

Was that in the contract? A quicker upgrade? My best friend got hired at Eagle, was told at his interview he'd be a Capt in less than 2 years. 8 years later he's waiting. 3 other's went to Republic instead of Eagle saying they'd be upgrading quicker, 7 years later.....Sign a contract because of what it gives you now. Not because what you think it will give you.

 

Wow. This proves a college education does not trump common sense.

 

Actually that's the rumor that is going around air Wisconsin right now. If this ta passes, their -200s are coming here when the -900s show up.

 

show us where in your TA is says these are additional airframes over and above what you have now? You can't because it doesn't say that; that's the impression management wants you to have... they did the same BS at Eagle.

The reality is, a large portion of your pilots will be leaving to go to mainline companies. There is not an endless supply of new hires to fill your seats.
They want more efficient jets (larger) that can carry the same ASM's they do now with less frequency, and therefore fewer required pilots.

You really need to wake up. Regionals are going to shrink. There is no way around that. As companies switch to larger airframes with less frequency the mid-senior guys will all be leaving to mainline jobs. This allows them to shrink the company without a single furlough. It also allows them to provide career progression programs to make you guys think you're getting something, when the reality is you'll be able to have career progression anyway as mainlines start sucking up regional pilots.

To tell your FO's that the TA will help them upgrade faster is an outright lie. You should be ashamed of yourself.

a raise? sure... we'll give you 1 dollar but will raise your insurance 4 dollars, then after you have signed we will interpret the loose language differently, and wait to go to arbitration where we can settle between what you say it is, and what we say it is... meaning the company gets to gain a bit more on every point. They use arbitration as a second bit at the negotiations apple.

You sir, are the classic example of why pilots shouldn't do contracts. If you haven't read the letter your union president wrote to the Eagle pilots; you really should... it may open your eyes to what your union thinks of your job, and what you're worth. You're just an apprentice after all... or didn't you know that?

Last, you guys have a contract already. Your company is very profitable. If you can't get raises and better work rules under those conditions... then when will you ever? Taking concessions outside of section six, for a profitable company is the most foolish thing I've ever heard of a pilot group doing. Please do not come to a mainline job and infect our pilot group with weak willed pilots with no fortitude to hold the line.

 

yeah.. ok. pass the TA and let me know how all that works out for you.. maybe thats what you need is a dose of reality.. I didnt read 'quicker upgrade' in that TA of yours.. have a section reference for me?

a 10% raise in healthcare costs isnt making less money? You're hoping you get 900's. Could be 700's, which are at your current rates.. = pay cut


Good Luck you Blue Streakers!

 

Will you get more than 8% raise, because you have to compensate for the health benefits increase.

"Faster upgrade", not if they start getting rid of the 200s. Which between AA/USAir, they have a lot of 50seaters.

We've been hearing at eagle a lot of "sign this and you will have new planes". Haven't seen one yet and I've been hearing this for 3 years already.

At the beginning was "We are going to be spun off, sign this so we can be competitive and get more flying from other airlines". Then it was "sing this because we are in BK and need you guys to take concessions to bring bigger RJs, and if not you will get it by the court". USAir came and said "Sign here, we will give you 60 airplanes, more flows. You will not receive a paycut, but the new hires will get less money". All of this are threats to our families. We've been taking them for long time. Stop *****ing because you've been pointed now with this TA.

Don't be fooled by management, you will not make more money, you will not upgrade quicker, and PSA won't grow. All the regionals will shrink. And the ones growing (RAH and MESA) have more hard time getting new people.

And don't forget how people that goes to RAH always says "the contract is not the best but there's a new one around the corner". BS!!! Relational a won't get better contracts. Once they get a better contract they will go BK (example: Pinnacle), because they won't be able to be profitable charging less to the mainlines to keep their flying.

PSA guys, don't get emotional with what others tell you. Think and be aware that whether you vote YES or NO, they will do whatever they want.

 

I just wanted to quote myself here seeing as most of you clearly didn't read my whole post....

This makes no sense. I'm not sure what FACT you are referring to but I am talking about the FACT that Airways blatantly said during these negotiations that mesa was next up if we turned down this TA. I am also talking about the FACT that the pilot groups at mesa or republic will not get a chance to vote on anything.

I quoted myself(from the post that you quoted but obviously didn't read) at the top of this post...just throwing that out there.....again

You are absolutely correct. This is something I considered while voting.


Yes, but they clearly aren't going well. Republic is iced currently I believe. At the end of the day it will most likely be a while before either of these carriers can "raise the bar." Also you can't tell me that Airways does not know, or consider that negotiations are ongoing at these places. They will get a fixed cost agreement to operate these acft, and management will use it as leverage during said negotiations.

Going to give you the obligatory, please read my ENTIRE post. I took the liberty of quoting myself at the top of this one for you.

That being said, this TA will not effect me negatively until 2021 when I hit year 12. If these acft are not growth and I remain an FO I will make just as much at year 4 pay(new cap) as I would at year 6 pay(old cap)due to an increase in our blended rate from larger acft. The insurance increases in my situation, while a consideration, is negligible.


For some(not me) a sticking point was that this TA would make PSA viable and, most likely guaranteed to stay around for the duration of their career due to operating larger acft. Staying a majority 50 seat carrier will limit our sustainability.

Not everyone is voting on the career progression portion of this TA because it simply doesn't make sense for them to go to mainline at age 55 or 60. It is important to them to actually have a place to work for 5 or 10 more years though.


This is a new one for me but is probably garbage IMO. Any benefit Airways gained from our lower cost would be negated by having a significantly more expensive carrier add 35 200s.

It's not a lie. It might turn out to not be true, but he isn't lying because the truth of the matter is that we don't know(something to consider while voting).

I agree with your other paragraph here. The last sentence though I do not. I mentioned the "hold the line" thing in my original post so I'll point you back to it. Also "holding the line" at a mainline carrier is a completely different ballgame than at the FFD level. You know why it is so I'm not going to elaborate. Apples to oranges.