Originally Posted by PilotCrusader

I'll agree with you on this. Glass wasn't out to get you guys to sign a cheap deal. That was a side effect. He was out to make us hate someone more than him: You. It did work perfectly.

Originally Posted by AboveAndBeyond

Go back and answer my earlier questions...what would have happened if the order was reversed? You skipped over that because you know the answer and don't want to admit it. You would have voted yes on the third vote and it didn't matter what happened at PSA. You lost to AAG and you are a sore loser. If you blame AAG, then you will have to admit that you lost. Instead, you blame another regional airline pilot group.

Originally Posted by AboveAndBeyond

Then every time that you blame PSA, you actually help Glass.

Glad to see that you are still supporting Glass. Nice work.

Originally Posted by PilotCrusader

I think most envoy pilots see it different than you do:
Most envoy pilots voted no the first time thinking it would make a difference for the industry. They thought there was enough of a bond, enough leverage, that all of us would stand together. I think most were ready to make that ultimate job sacrifice if it was going to make a difference. Ultimately, we wrong. Very wrong. There is no unity among us, our national union didn't even want it(in fact they went behind the scenes to fight it).

When we voted yes this last year, to a much worse contract than we were initially offered, it was as a morally down trodden group. We stood up to the man and lost due to selfishness. "But we were gonna get shut down!" You cried. No one would have gotten shut down. In this time of pilot shortage, everyone would have found a home making the same or more very quickly. But yes, in the end we did get beaten. We didn't vote yes so much to survive as we did because our cause was not only worthless, but it actually backfired: we were now losing pilots to the very outfit that first created the disunity(and shut up about losing a few lousy planes to Mesa). In the end, voting yes has actually slowed the attrition to PSA. If that hurts your outfit, yes, I am glad. Ironic that now your MEC NEEDS to make a deal to take our pilots with the 700s and you see it as "helping" us poor envoy pilots.

In regards to the general attitude about PSA at envoy, I don't care what some envoy guys say to your face, PSA is generally a bad word around here. I was talking to my 2 year FO today about all this "go with the planes" stuff. Even though he already has a CRJ type rating and more experience than a lot of your 1 year wonders, and would make Captain in no time flat, he said we would never go to PSA; he has morals he stated. I hear that a lot from my young guys, and it makes me proud that perhaps at least they are growing up and learning what selfish acts do.

Originally Posted by PilotCrusader

Oh right back at ya hoss:
Every time you try to take more from envoy, you actually help Glass, like this latest ploy to grab our CRJs AND our CRJ pilots. Nice work

Yeah I can turn whatever you want around kiddo.

Originally Posted by pagey

I've asked you this before, and you avoid it every time.

Explain to me where the leverage came from? It was proven, very emphatically, that we never had any leverage. AAG moved over 100 acft that were either originally slated to go to Eagle, or were already at Eagle, to other carriers.

Your war cry was "no one can staff, we have leverage." You were wrong and PSA's NC and MEC were smart enough to see that your case to vote no was foolish.

It's not about morals. If anyone was truly morally against PSA's vote, the they would have quit immediately after Eagle's yes vote. They won't, because again, that's not what it's about.

#FreeBrady

Originally Posted by AboveAndBeyond

See...deflecting. I am starting to believe that you are AAG management and trying to keep the hatred alive. Give it up!

Originally Posted by PilotCrusader

AAG moved those aircraft AFTER we said no and others said yes. So yes, you are right in a sense, we thought we had leverage due to unity.

The war cry was true. You staffed your airline more from endeavor and envoy than a lot of other places. Yes you took the lions share of new guys too, but at what cost? RAH is screwed now. Many others are having a hard time staffing. The TSA experiment is already a laugh. "They can't staff it" has happened. Hey but you guys are making out great so good for you! I know I know, everyone is welcome to join you at your party. I've told you before, in 20+ years, I have learned one very certain thing about regional life: enjoy the good times because it never lasts very long. Today you are Doug's sweethearts. Tomorrow he will find a new *****.

Originally Posted by pagey

It hasn't happened. PSA has hired 800 pilots in a year and a half. It's not relevant that some of them came from other carriers. AAG told PSA's NC that the acft would go to Mesa and we would subsequently be shut down. If the acft went to Mesa then Mesa would be the "PSA" of today instead of PSA. Those pilots looking to jump ship would've done it but it would have been to Mesa instead.

Any issues right now at PSA are not due to lack of available staff. It is due to gross ineptitude of a management group that was brought in with the sole purpose of "upsizing" PSA. They have failed due to lack of foresight and planning. We have ~1200 pilots on property and only ~80 acft. We should be way overstaffed.

Now, just so I'm sure, you are saying that AAG's wholly owned regionals had leverage due to "unity." Is that correct? I know you are not that utopian and naive.