You are probably right that there will not be a mass exodus but let's not exaggerate and generalize how the entire Envoy pilot group feels about PSA. Need I remind you the results of your last TA, in which many pilots decided to air on the side of pragmatism and avoid dogmatic righteous posturing. Granted, maybe some of those yes voters still hold a personal grudge and feel like they voted out of necessity and survival, but I doubt even many of them will hold some faded line especially if it prevents them from improving their qol, pay etc (they are actual people with families and responsibilities and are not pawns to be positioned to your liking). There very well may be a small core of extremely militant and vocal envoy pilots, but you need to stop painting this picture of a united envoy front against PSA just to help support your own belief. Envoy is just as divided as the 400 or so original psa voters were. The vitriol needs to end.

 

So I turned down a July 28, 2014 class and went elsewhere. I guess I would have been a CA by now huh? Given that I had previous time...

 

You're free to believe what you like, but I'm guessing you don't work here and don't know the reality of how we feel towards PSA. I'm telling you from first hand knowledge, so take it for what it's worth. While I may come across as vocal and militant on this forum, I'm nothing compared to some of our other pilots! Believe it or not, I've actually enjoyed my time at envoy/eagle. I just wish certain things that were out of our control had turned out differently....

 

I hear ya. I am not going to claim to have a better read on pilot mentality at your airline. Perhaps some of my assumptions can be filed under wishful thinking; others are based on actual sentiments conveyed to me by envoy pilots. If it is true, than I respect your balanced approach towards wholly owned animosity even when there is conflict of opinions. I can understand the frustration resulting from events taking on a different path than you expected.

 

I really have to believe that Envoy pilots are smarter than that. All of them that I know certainly are, and have no bad feelings to PSA.

Here is a good litmus test for this. What would have happened if the order of the votes was reversed? As it stood, PSA voted NO twice and so did Envoy. But, instead of PSA voting first in the next one, Envoy did. The company came to you and gave you the same exact ultimatum that they did before your vote. It was "Vote yes or we will shut you down, and here is how we will do it". Would Envoy have voted yes?

The answer is ABSOLUTELY! They would have voted yes in the same ratio that they did in the real one. You knew that you would be shut down if you didn't vote yes. If you guys really wanted to "burn it down", you would have voted no this last time.

Then...

Ask yourself this question. If PSA had voted no, and AAG started to shut PSA down, would you have voted no to the last vote, or would you have caved in? Knowing that you would be shut down too, would you have voted no? The flying would have been sent to other carriers, all of these new pilots at PSA would be going to that other carrier, and everyone at PSA and Envoy would be out of a job in 3 years.

Once again, you know damn well that you would have voted yes again. You played your game, and AAG played their game. There was absolutely no way that you were going to win.

It didn't matter what happened at PSA, Envoy would have voted the same way.

 

You forgot the important part of Sublime's argument....

It was perfectly acceptable for Eagle pilots to vote yes to save their job but it was absolutely NOT ok for PSA to do the same.

Remember......We had leverage.

 

They know it is true. Blaming other people makes them feel better, but in the end, it won't help. There are people that truly are to blame, but it is at a pay grade that is much higher than the pilots. The Envoy guys that I have talked to and know realized this long ago.

The company has played the pilots against each other perfectly. Someone else said this, but I will reiterate it. We are playing checkers and they are playing chess. The sad thing is that some people are still trying to blame one of the pawns long after the game was over.

There will be books written about how one regional airline was played against the other because they did it so well. (Flying the Line Part III?). Some people just refuse to admit that they got played.

 

I think most envoy pilots see it different than you do:
Most envoy pilots voted no the first time thinking it would make a difference for the industry. They thought there was enough of a bond, enough leverage, that all of us would stand together. I think most were ready to make that ultimate job sacrifice if it was going to make a difference. Ultimately, we wrong. Very wrong. There is no unity among us, our national union didn't even want it(in fact they went behind the scenes to fight it).

When we voted yes this last year, to a much worse contract than we were initially offered, it was as a morally down trodden group. We stood up to the man and lost due to selfishness. "But we were gonna get shut down!" You cried. No one would have gotten shut down. In this time of pilot shortage, everyone would have found a home making the same or more very quickly. But yes, in the end we did get beaten. We didn't vote yes so much to survive as we did because our cause was not only worthless, but it actually backfired: we were now losing pilots to the very outfit that first created the disunity(and shut up about losing a few lousy planes to Mesa). In the end, voting yes has actually slowed the attrition to PSA. If that hurts your outfit, yes, I am glad. Ironic that now your MEC NEEDS to make a deal to take our pilots with the 700s and you see it as "helping" us poor envoy pilots.

In regards to the general attitude about PSA at envoy, I don't care what some envoy guys say to your face, PSA is generally a bad word around here. I was talking to my 2 year FO today about all this "go with the planes" stuff. Even though he already has a CRJ type rating and more experience than a lot of your 1 year wonders, and would make Captain in no time flat, he said we would never go to PSA; he has morals he stated. I hear that a lot from my young guys, and it makes me proud that perhaps at least they are growing up and learning what selfish acts do.

 

Go back and answer my earlier questions...what would have happened if the order was reversed? You skipped over that because you know the answer and don't want to admit it. You would have voted yes on the third vote and it didn't matter what happened at PSA. You lost to AAG and you are a sore loser. If you blame AAG, then you will have to admit that you lost. Instead, you blame another regional airline pilot group.

 

I'll agree with you on this. Glass wasn't out to get you guys to sign a cheap deal. That was a side effect. He was out to make us hate someone more than him: You. It did work perfectly.