FirstClass

I don't know, I would have to see the program to answer your question. You call it poaching but there is no evidence of anything.

All I do know is there is no street captain program right now ie nothing has changed. New FO's with the time are being upgraded in seniority order, right out of IOE.

If and when street captains come to PSA, it will be an individual choice I'm sure by Envoy FO's and many other carriers pilots as well, not just Envoy.

We can't help you with your problems at Envoy, but we can certainly welcome you here if you decide to come.

FirstClass

Who the hell is cujo? That means nothing to me. Is he important somehow?

AboveAndBeyond

It is common that ALPA carriers hire other ALPA pilots that have been displaced (Look at United's contract, section 21R). In this case, the Envoy pilots will be displaced off of their equipment and not out of a job. It they were furloughed because of the equipment leaving, it would be something that I would be concerned about in the future. In this case, however, the pilots are not being furloughed. That is the distinction. They can stay where they are! It is just one ALPA carrier offering a preferential hiring to another ALPA carrier. What is the big deal? If you don't want to go, then don't.

Nothing is stopping Envoy from offering preferential hiring to any other ALPA carrier. You could do the same thing.

DOGIII

You are missing their point. It is not about the immediate tangible gains or losses that would be bestowed upon a Envoy horizontal transfer pilot. They are griping a larger concept which is basically the flawed model of seniority in the regionals given managements constant turmoil-by-design. The problem is that, and it pains me to say it, some of the Envoy pilots' sentiments here echo a sense of denial, fantasy, and nostalgia due to their collective memory of the way things used to operate when they had a monopoly on AAG flying, when in reality they are awakening late, to a new dawn where competition and whipsaw are, regrettably, very much alive. There is a difference between "supporting" and "accepting a reality." I would not go as far as to say that just because that is the way management wants to play it, resistance is futile, but while there are some regional common interests that can be achieved through unity and solidarity, these are limited by the current structure of the regionals and existence of fee for departure carriers, and will be impossible to change without drastic overhauls of the regional union buildup and its relation to mainline representation.

I hear that plea from the pilot quoted from the lounge and agree whole heartedly, but I ask him and others if their current plan of inaction associated with their disdain towards management and desire to see the AAG empire crumble down are in-fact pragmatic or even realistic. The entire PSA-Envoy dispute hangs on this exact thread - a little more than half of the original PSA pilot group, reluctantly accepted a reality after two prior no votes that both yielded damaging results; a little more than half the Envoy group (in the first vote), were not willing to accept this reality - I salute them though I do not know if I would have done the same in their shoes. It was essentially a poker "check" that management returned with a raise and not as some portray it here, a willingness to fall on their swords for the greater good. This was proven by the the eventual and highly pragmatic yes vote.

Cujo665

That's not what your MEC is arguing for. They clearly do not want the planes unless the pilots have to come with them.

Have any of you asked your reps to produce the letter yet?

AboveAndBeyond

If it exists, then post it here.

joek

To bad it's not our MEC decision on whether we want the planes or not.

PilotCrusader

He can't without giving away his source. Funny that none of you have even lifted a finger to call your Union reps. It is highly unlikely that not a single one of your reps has read about this.
It is a new level of scum to try and get ALPA national to bring over our pilots with the planes.
I've now seen the letter(not from the Cuuj either). I have also spoken to a few FAA contacts. Why don't you ask your Union the other reason they need our pilots. Please, have some balls and post the truth here.

PilotJ3

It does exist...sign by Mr Hinczynski. Unbelievable...

So at the end PSA wants our airplanes, our pilots and our type of flow. a new low has being reached.

FirstClass

So what. We'll take your bases too while we are at it.