Crjreg007

I think more of what he is saying is that if you do your research PSA is what you signed up more. Besides the critical pay PSA is what we signed into contract a few years back. We took this pay for growth and got a lot of growth and now we want that growth and more pay. FO pay is bad but we got offered some thing to make it a little better and said no. A lot of places would have killed to have as many quick upgrades as we got. Is the pay here not what we signed in? I know it's unpopular opinion here but some of our pilots want more while the ones we could help suffer. Getting pilots in the door benefits every one even if that means not every one gets more money.

chrisreedrules

Well like I said... I don't think it sucks. Everything that they told me would happen has happened. Upgrades not continuing at their previous pace is disappointing, but that won't stay that way for long based upon the movement we're going to see in the next year or so and based on the assumption that AA is going to have to raise pay at the wholly-owneds to be able to staff them. Personally, I don't care if someone decides to come here or not, that is on them. I'll always do my best to give an unbiased account of the status of things here. I think that is much more than half of you who literally post the wildest rumors and gossip which usually aren't even based in reality. We aren't only going to flow "1 a month" for the remainder of 2016. That isn't how the language in our contract is written.

Anyway, carry on... Sometimes I wonder why I bother posting on here anymore. This place is taken with a grain of salt by everyone except those who post here regularly.

Slick111

So please enlighten me. How does getting pilots in the door benefit the 1/2 of the pilot group known as "Captains"?

And tell me why I should vote for something that helps the company, when there's nothing in it for me? Why should I care if the company, (through their own stubbornness and stupidity) can't get entice enough F/O's to come to PSA?

Binksy

I really don't care either way, but the answer to that question is pretty simple. If we keep hiring, we keep growing. Growth equals more upgrades. Growth also equals increased flow, more lines of flying, increased seniority for those already on property (which gives better schedules), more 76 seat a/c on property which increases the blended rate, etc. Make sense?

Also, eventually if we don't keep hiring we shrink through attrition. Go backwards long enough and downgrades and displacements enter the picture. That's when it even more directly affects guys in the left seat.

sweetholyjesus

This kind of thinking got you where you are today..."Getting more pilots in the door" accepting below-average pay while keeping money away from pilots on hand only benefits the company..

Edit: trying hard not to be another PSA basher, just calling it how I see it. Of course the company will do things this way, they need pilots and want to save money. I'm just surprised at how many pilots are going along with it and even trying to justify it.

Crjreg007

I was not part of the vote that got the company where it is today. What I'm saying is the people that did make that vote are the same ones asking for more now. That group took the small increase in flow and quick upgrades and now want the junior FOs to suffer for further gains for them. I have not advocated trading money for growth. What I am saying is that the same people that did trade pay for growth are now hurting junior pilots by being selfish and wanting more. This whole idea that less new hires means futures gains is probably not true. PSA doubled in size and now has a very junior pilot group doing a lot of flying for American. If we did not grow another bit this could still be considered a success for American. What is to stop them from just accepting we won't be a 150 airplane airline? What is to stop them from giving more money to only new hires? Word from the MEC call is we're losing about 6 total pilots a month. The new bonuses for now seem to be taking care of that as long as we don't grow. Our plan for making American give us more because they need is only works if American isn't willing to give our planes and flying away and last time I checked American has no problems doing either.

sweetholyjesus

I read every word but I still don't see your point. To have a unionized pilot group and only give money to probie new-hires takes money from the union pilots. Not that being part of a union means much these days.

How much money are you leaving at the table? Food for thought:
Endeavor bonus- $23,000 x 1546 pilots = $35.5mil/yr paid by company
PSA would-be retention bonus- $15,000 x 1195 pilots = $17.9mil/yr
PSA current bonus- assume you hire 400 experienced pilots this year.
400 x $15,000 = $6mil (not per year, one time cost). That's potentially $12mil instantly lost, in this example..

If little-old Endeavor can afford it I'm sure the mighty AA could, if they wanted to. But they don't even have to try with people thinking the way you do. So much money left on the table, but you're OK with it because "everybody wins". I see only one clear winner here.. Movement and growth should not be worth your paycheck. Again, this is all just my opinion and I'm sure this is a beaten twice-dead zombie horse..

Also interesting how they can afford to pay bonuses to newhires right after they got everyone else to take concessions. Now you know where your lost wages are going.

MitchRapp

We'll said. I think the most vocal are newer to the industry and will learn over time. What they learn and how it shapes their opinion is obviously the kicker.

Crjreg007

You're confusing what the company can do with what it will do. The company could pay us the same as mainline pilots with what they made last year but they won't.

Crjreg007

Also the company is already giving money to newbies with out giving money to the union paying pilots and they can keep doing that. People with your thinking are the ones hurting PSA. You want more with the no motivation for the company to pay you more. If the company gives a bonus or pay raise to all pilots will it keep captains from flowing of taking better offers from Delta or United? Very few people a year plus are leaving for others like Endeavor. If giving money to these people doesn't change any thing there is no motivation and a bad business move to do so. So keep thinking well get more but until pilots start leaving well only stagnate with reserve time and flow times getting longer.