Comair updates?
08-06-2012 | 03:10 PM
New Hire
Joined: Jun 2010
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Hmmm, let's compare apples to apples, shall we.
Some former OH MEC dude WRITES a memorandum with no force other than his wholehearted desire to make DAL pilots resign their DAL numbers if they want a job. 1. the OH pilots have no bearing whatsoever in this WRITING of a MEMORANDUM, 2. if this ever came to fruition, at least a job could have been had (resigning your seniority is your own choice), 3. you could still have fed your family
So now, DAL pilots VOTE (all of them) to get rid of planes that effectively and affirmatively puts OH pilot out of jobs. Yep, that's right, some upper muchy-muck didn't WRITE A SIMPLE MEMORANDUM, DAL VOTED this in (knowing full well the ramifications on the regionals, and OH in particular).
Give me another load of crap about how this is good for the flying industry. THis was good for DAL pilot's wallets and that is it, period. Removing regional flying ONLY helps the DAL guys, wow, they're getting more planes and get new hires to move up the ladder.
All the while, 800+ OH pilots are out of work, permanently with OH, not just a furlough, I note, with no chance of being recalled, no chance of having THE OPTION of giving up a seniority number, nothing, nada. DAL pilots are just as much responsible for putting OH guys out of work as DAL mgmt is.
Yeah, it's business, but let's stop tip-toeing around the underlying issue.
Some former OH MEC dude WRITES a memorandum with no force other than his wholehearted desire to make DAL pilots resign their DAL numbers if they want a job. 1. the OH pilots have no bearing whatsoever in this WRITING of a MEMORANDUM, 2. if this ever came to fruition, at least a job could have been had (resigning your seniority is your own choice), 3. you could still have fed your family
So now, DAL pilots VOTE (all of them) to get rid of planes that effectively and affirmatively puts OH pilot out of jobs. Yep, that's right, some upper muchy-muck didn't WRITE A SIMPLE MEMORANDUM, DAL VOTED this in (knowing full well the ramifications on the regionals, and OH in particular).
Give me another load of crap about how this is good for the flying industry. THis was good for DAL pilot's wallets and that is it, period. Removing regional flying ONLY helps the DAL guys, wow, they're getting more planes and get new hires to move up the ladder.
All the while, 800+ OH pilots are out of work, permanently with OH, not just a furlough, I note, with no chance of being recalled, no chance of having THE OPTION of giving up a seniority number, nothing, nada. DAL pilots are just as much responsible for putting OH guys out of work as DAL mgmt is.
Yeah, it's business, but let's stop tip-toeing around the underlying issue.
08-06-2012 | 03:35 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: "if it's got wings, I can crash it".
I hear, ya man. I really do and I understand, bro. However, if negotiations were that simple then I'm sure the Negotiators would have included as many furloughed pilots as possible. I wasn't in the room and neither were you, but I doubt Delta said to them "Here is $20 million for your pilots, divide it up however you best see fit." If it were that easy, I'm sure they would have given you guys some that just hit the street.
If negotiations were easy, then it wouldn't take years to negotiate a contract.
Do you know for a fact that they "chose" not to include recently furloughed pilots? If so, please PM me the proof because I'd love to see it. Often times, pilots on furlough are not negotiable from management's standpoint. They often get shafted in any negotiating process. It could very well be that the company (read: Delta management) refused to include furloughed pilots. Some things they just will not budge on unfortunately. So if you would like to blame someone, blame Delta management. They're the ones shutting Comair down, not the MEC.
If negotiations were easy, then it wouldn't take years to negotiate a contract.
Do you know for a fact that they "chose" not to include recently furloughed pilots? If so, please PM me the proof because I'd love to see it. Often times, pilots on furlough are not negotiable from management's standpoint. They often get shafted in any negotiating process. It could very well be that the company (read: Delta management) refused to include furloughed pilots. Some things they just will not budge on unfortunately. So if you would like to blame someone, blame Delta management. They're the ones shutting Comair down, not the MEC.
(11x18.46x37.20x30)=226614.96 (btw it's $7553.83 p/furlough)
226614.96/20,000,000=0.01133 or 1.133 % of the 20 mil.
Now, I was told by various sources DL did not want to include us in the package. Knowing that in the formula set in the LOA, our severance came to 1.133 percent of the total amount, I just don't know who to believe. Did the MEC really ask, or did DL really didn;t want to spend another 200k after throwing a bone at 20 mil?.
We were there until April 03rd and most would have come back if recalled. It is unthinkable to me mighty DL would think that 200k was a deal breaker, as it is unfathomable to me that our MEC would leave us out for a mere 1.13 percent of the total.
$7500 (+/-) would have made a huge difference to some of us (specially the ones with no jobs at this time), and because I can't wrap my head around this, it is best I let it go. But it truly hurts either way....done with this.
08-07-2012 | 04:11 AM
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2007
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It is hard to believe that Delta wouldnt give anything to the furloughs after they included all furloughs in the buyouts earlier this year. They paid out about $5000 for each furlough who took the buyout and still included travel benefits. But now your saying Delta wouldn't negotiate on that? I wonder if the MEC wanted to exclude the furloughs to get the maximum payout for the rest. Not accusing just questioning.
08-07-2012 | 05:06 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,681
Likes: 62
Made a few corrections to your post. This was being said during the rj orgy of the last 10 years. Didn't see a whole lot of sympathy for the 1000's of furloughed mainline pilots during that time.
Nope, I stand by my post. Enough of you voted for your new contract knowing full well Repercussions MAJOR level. And now you say it stinks for DELTA, AA, NWA, UAL, CAL, etc, etc. Management dangles a big carrot in front of your face in the form of raises and more airplanes, and suddenly it's ok to screw over fellow pilots. Then you say, it wasn't us, it was management. If enough of you guys cared provisions could have been put into your contract that would have helped the entire industry, not just SUBCONTRACTOR pilots. And don't give me that crap that moving the flying to SUBCONTRACTORS because domestic can't possibly be flown profitably by mainline is good for everyone. While it may be in the long run, this is a terrible time to put people on the street. Why not wait until Delta is actually hiring before doing this to Comair?
08-07-2012 | 05:14 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 63
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Evilboy,
I know tons of guys in that group, a lot of them with families and kids, and in my opinion its just wrong to not do something. I did the math like you and for less then 1.1%, if Delta doesn't want to pay it, then I think the rest of the group should take a little less. All you guys were on property until a few months ago and I'd argue had it the worst among those on property the past 5 years being on reserve the whole time and furloughed in the past as well. Just my opinion...
I know tons of guys in that group, a lot of them with families and kids, and in my opinion its just wrong to not do something. I did the math like you and for less then 1.1%, if Delta doesn't want to pay it, then I think the rest of the group should take a little less. All you guys were on property until a few months ago and I'd argue had it the worst among those on property the past 5 years being on reserve the whole time and furloughed in the past as well. Just my opinion...
08-07-2012 | 05:32 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 886
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From: "if it's got wings, I can crash it".
Evilboy,
I know tons of guys in that group, a lot of them with families and kids, and in my opinion its just wrong to not do something. I did the math like you and for less then 1.1%, if Delta doesn't want to pay it, then I think the rest of the group should take a little less. All you guys were on property until a few months ago and I'd argue had it the worst among those on property the past 5 years being on reserve the whole time and furloughed in the past as well. Just my opinion...
I know tons of guys in that group, a lot of them with families and kids, and in my opinion its just wrong to not do something. I did the math like you and for less then 1.1%, if Delta doesn't want to pay it, then I think the rest of the group should take a little less. All you guys were on property until a few months ago and I'd argue had it the worst among those on property the past 5 years being on reserve the whole time and furloughed in the past as well. Just my opinion...
Btw, I know each and everyone in that group and I truly feel for them. I landed ok, but know some of them didn't. And yes every single one of us never had a line (reserve for at least 5 years), and furloughed previously.
08-07-2012 | 09:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: Beach Bum
08-07-2012 | 11:11 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: awkward & cramped
It is hard to believe that Delta wouldnt give anything to the furloughs after they included all furloughs in the buyouts earlier this year. They paid out about $5000 for each furlough who took the buyout and still included travel benefits. But now your saying Delta wouldn't negotiate on that? I wonder if the MEC wanted to exclude the furloughs to get the maximum payout for the rest. Not accusing just questioning.
Hearing that recent furloughs are not eligible, especially only 30, seems pretty hard to swallow. Things that make you say, "hmmm."
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