Are F/Os really scum?
03-11-2008, 02:20 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 1,454
Originally Posted by DelDah Capt
You are seriously confusing the difference between non-revving and the Jumpseat. If you list yourself to non rev as an S-3 or S-2 and you get cleared with a seat assignment, then you can take your seat and do what you please. If you request the jumpseat you will ask the Captain for permission (or at the very least introduce yourself to the Captain)....even if the gate agent gives you a cabin seat as part of the jumpseat request. All jumpseat riders, whether they sit in the cabin or in the actual jumseat , must introduce themselves to the Captain and request permission to ride the jumpseat (says so in black and white on FOM page 4-3.2). The only difference between a jumpseater who occupies the actual jumpseat and one who flows back to the cabin is that the Captain need not verify the credentials of a flowback rider.
If you are being taught something other than this, then we need to get our Jumpseat reps together for a little talk.
Believe me, I'm not being a hard ass here. I'm a commuter myself and I'm very sympathetic to fellow commuters and I never play politics with my jumpseat. However, there are certain rules to be followed. I agree that with the many new flowback agreements between airlines now in place (which is a great thing), some Captains get pretty cavalier about requiring you to introduce yourself....that doesn't mean that you should stop doing it.
If you are being taught something other than this, then we need to get our Jumpseat reps together for a little talk.
Believe me, I'm not being a hard ass here. I'm a commuter myself and I'm very sympathetic to fellow commuters and I never play politics with my jumpseat. However, there are certain rules to be followed. I agree that with the many new flowback agreements between airlines now in place (which is a great thing), some Captains get pretty cavalier about requiring you to introduce yourself....that doesn't mean that you should stop doing it.
03-11-2008, 02:34 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Waiting for retirements
Posts: 232
Originally Posted by The Chow
Not a good idea. The only folks who seems to be willing to play games with the JS are the one who don't commute.
On a side note.....I think Jet Blue has to be the friendliest place to JS.
On a side note.....I think Jet Blue has to be the friendliest place to JS.
Give me a JSer with an attitude, and I will give him/her the next flight out of ATL due to W&B issues........Humility and respect go along way.
03-11-2008, 03:06 PM
#44
Furlough line holder
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: CRJ2, ATR, CRJ7, E145, 737
Posts: 1,845
You for sure are supposed to check in, and if they ride up front, put their jumpseat card in the green envelope (for comair guys). Remember, even our w/b form has an ACM box for their name and to check "in pax cabin".
If he's in CASS listed for the J/S (even on an empty flight)..he must check in, regardless of actual seat location on the airplane.
If he's in CASS listed for the J/S (even on an empty flight)..he must check in, regardless of actual seat location on the airplane.
03-11-2008, 04:32 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: retired
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by cubflyer
As far as W&B goes, I have seen crews struggling with W&B issues in order to accomodate me. AND I APPRECIATE IT
Don't mess with the jumpseat, if you can accomodate - do it.
03-11-2008, 04:48 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: standing-by
Posts: 284
Originally Posted by Meatball
If I were your Captain, I would have noticed the jump-seater "dissing" you and corrected the situation. I would have done that by introducing him to you. "and this is Bob..." Disrespect my f/o and you disrespect me. Also, I would have made it a point to bring you into the conversation if the guy was ignoring you. Sounds like your captain was a bit of a jerk too. Did you mention this to him? Something like, "did you notice that guy didn't even acknowledge my existence?"
Having said all that, yes, there are many captains who look down their noses at f/o's.
Having said all that, yes, there are many captains who look down their noses at f/o's.
03-11-2008, 05:05 PM
#47
APC co-founder
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,847
If there is any question as to what a guy or gal's attitude is, try this.
Extent your hand with a smile, and say these words:
"Hi my name is _______" Then, start a conversation and be a gracious host.
If you still get the cold shoulder, ask why.
I once had a jumpseater that was a little obtuse, and it was really grating on me. About halfway through the flight I had had enough and I asked If I had said something to offend him (I knew I hadn't but here was his opportunity to vent without being accused).
Turns out he was jumpseating home after receiving notice of a death in his immediate family. Here was this guy going home to bury his kid and I was worried out my feelings. Yes I felt like a jerk, but thankfully that I hadn't more direct. It's hard to know where a guy's head is, but what I do know is as professionals we have the opportunity to help each other - professionally and personally.
Lesson learned: It's not all about me.
Second lesson learned: When in doubt ask
Third lesson learned: No matter what you feel on the inside, maintain your composure on the outside (if you don't, it could come back to make you look like a jerk).
Extent your hand with a smile, and say these words:
"Hi my name is _______" Then, start a conversation and be a gracious host.
If you still get the cold shoulder, ask why.
I once had a jumpseater that was a little obtuse, and it was really grating on me. About halfway through the flight I had had enough and I asked If I had said something to offend him (I knew I hadn't but here was his opportunity to vent without being accused).
Turns out he was jumpseating home after receiving notice of a death in his immediate family. Here was this guy going home to bury his kid and I was worried out my feelings. Yes I felt like a jerk, but thankfully that I hadn't more direct. It's hard to know where a guy's head is, but what I do know is as professionals we have the opportunity to help each other - professionally and personally.
Lesson learned: It's not all about me.
Second lesson learned: When in doubt ask
Third lesson learned: No matter what you feel on the inside, maintain your composure on the outside (if you don't, it could come back to make you look like a jerk).
03-11-2008, 05:18 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: Some Hotel
Posts: 1,617
Can't remember where I found this, but here are some good pointers...
Here are my suggestions for getting a jumpseat and appropriate jumpseat ettiquette:
1) Travel in uniform. It always helps identify you as a pilot and often clears some of the bureaucracy. If you're not traveling in uniform, you'd better be traveling in business class attire (slacks/collared shirt), and have a tie available in your suitcase just in case- some places still have tie policies on the books and some captains might hold you to them.
2) Try to catch the crew at the gate when they come up. If that's not possible, ask the gate agent if it's okay to pre-board so that you don't interrupt the closing of the flight or get in the way of boarding passengers.
3) If you can't pre-board or meet the crew at the counter, when you go down the jetbridge, leave your bags at the door to the aircraft, off to the side and out of the way of boarding passengers. Enter the aircraft and politely introduce yourself to the lead FA. " Hi! My name is Bob, I work with XYZAirlines and am trying to jumpseat today. Mind if I poke my head upfront?"
4) Once you get the go ahead from the FA, step up to the cockpit entry way. Double check that you have EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEED TO JUMPSEAT READY. You should have your medical, certificate, boarding pass, and company ID all set to hand to the captain. If you're flying via the CASS system, you should also have your passport out and ready.
Odds are the crew is doing something. If they are running a prestart checklist, WAIT UNTIL THEY ARE DONE WITH IT! If they aren't running a checklist, knock on the cockpit door, extend your hand (to shake) and say "Hello gentlemen" or "Hello, sir/ma'am/captain" "I'm Bob Hoover, and I was wondering if I could ride along with you today."
Most captains at this point will do the once over- some might reach for scab lists or ask for additional verification of some details. If it's not 30 seconds to departure, there's nothing wrong with asking about the latest news at the company or some other mundane detail. If it is getting towards pushtime, thank the crew for the ride, offer your assistance should it be needed and hightail it out of there.
If you need to retrieve your bag from the jetbridge, stand patiently by the exit to the cockpit/galley for a break in the passengers. Most good FA's will ask the boarding passengers to wait for just a second. If they don't you can turn to face the entry and take a step forward (which 99% of the time will cause the passengers to stop), but don't try to push your way out. Also bear in mind that for this particular moment, the people boarding the plane might think that you're one of the pilots, so put on a smile and return any greetings that you get. Inform the lead FA of whatever seat you're in and let them know that they can call upon you if they need you in any manner.
Finally, once you get settled in and the flight gets underway, take a few minutes to WATCH the safety briefing. It's professional courtesy to the flight attendants. Don't put on your ipod or go right to sleep, take the 90 seconds to maintain eye contact and set an example for the rest of the passengers. You'd be surprised how much they appreciate it.
Last step is when you depart. If possible wait for most of the passengers to leave, unless you're in a hurry to connect or meet a showtime. Cross the seatbelts in your row- leave any trash on the seat cushion (unless it will spill), and then work your way to the front. Thank the cabin and flight crew for the ride and be sure to offer your company's jumpseat to them in return.
I followed this policy for 4 years of commercial flying and was never denied a jumpseat due to my behavior, and never had any uncomfortable moments like posted above. Most times I ended up in first class, although I think those days are pretty much over for non-revs with the number of free upgrades that they give out these days...
Have fun- Fly safe!
Here are my suggestions for getting a jumpseat and appropriate jumpseat ettiquette:
1) Travel in uniform. It always helps identify you as a pilot and often clears some of the bureaucracy. If you're not traveling in uniform, you'd better be traveling in business class attire (slacks/collared shirt), and have a tie available in your suitcase just in case- some places still have tie policies on the books and some captains might hold you to them.
2) Try to catch the crew at the gate when they come up. If that's not possible, ask the gate agent if it's okay to pre-board so that you don't interrupt the closing of the flight or get in the way of boarding passengers.
3) If you can't pre-board or meet the crew at the counter, when you go down the jetbridge, leave your bags at the door to the aircraft, off to the side and out of the way of boarding passengers. Enter the aircraft and politely introduce yourself to the lead FA. " Hi! My name is Bob, I work with XYZAirlines and am trying to jumpseat today. Mind if I poke my head upfront?"
4) Once you get the go ahead from the FA, step up to the cockpit entry way. Double check that you have EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEED TO JUMPSEAT READY. You should have your medical, certificate, boarding pass, and company ID all set to hand to the captain. If you're flying via the CASS system, you should also have your passport out and ready.
Odds are the crew is doing something. If they are running a prestart checklist, WAIT UNTIL THEY ARE DONE WITH IT! If they aren't running a checklist, knock on the cockpit door, extend your hand (to shake) and say "Hello gentlemen" or "Hello, sir/ma'am/captain" "I'm Bob Hoover, and I was wondering if I could ride along with you today."
Most captains at this point will do the once over- some might reach for scab lists or ask for additional verification of some details. If it's not 30 seconds to departure, there's nothing wrong with asking about the latest news at the company or some other mundane detail. If it is getting towards pushtime, thank the crew for the ride, offer your assistance should it be needed and hightail it out of there.
If you need to retrieve your bag from the jetbridge, stand patiently by the exit to the cockpit/galley for a break in the passengers. Most good FA's will ask the boarding passengers to wait for just a second. If they don't you can turn to face the entry and take a step forward (which 99% of the time will cause the passengers to stop), but don't try to push your way out. Also bear in mind that for this particular moment, the people boarding the plane might think that you're one of the pilots, so put on a smile and return any greetings that you get. Inform the lead FA of whatever seat you're in and let them know that they can call upon you if they need you in any manner.
Finally, once you get settled in and the flight gets underway, take a few minutes to WATCH the safety briefing. It's professional courtesy to the flight attendants. Don't put on your ipod or go right to sleep, take the 90 seconds to maintain eye contact and set an example for the rest of the passengers. You'd be surprised how much they appreciate it.
Last step is when you depart. If possible wait for most of the passengers to leave, unless you're in a hurry to connect or meet a showtime. Cross the seatbelts in your row- leave any trash on the seat cushion (unless it will spill), and then work your way to the front. Thank the cabin and flight crew for the ride and be sure to offer your company's jumpseat to them in return.
I followed this policy for 4 years of commercial flying and was never denied a jumpseat due to my behavior, and never had any uncomfortable moments like posted above. Most times I ended up in first class, although I think those days are pretty much over for non-revs with the number of free upgrades that they give out these days...
Have fun- Fly safe!
03-11-2008, 05:44 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: ex-CRJ, now-ERJ FO
Posts: 209
Yeah, I've seen that before too. Very well put-together list. Couldn't agree with it more.
ALWAYS ask the CA to jumpseat....as someone else said, if you checked in at the gate for the JS, you need to pop up front, regardless of a seat assignment. If you listed yourself on the non-rev list, head on back. Even those guys check in sometimes...and I used to as well. Nice to know sometimes if there is a qualified crew member in back in the unlikely event......
In regards to the original post, I wouldn't take offense at all. I've had some flights where the JSer and I talked the whole way without a peep from the CA, others where I took the radios so that CA & JSer could chat. Just depends...no big deal.
Also....I agree JetBlue is one of the best jumpseating experiences I've had. Thanks guys & gals!
ALWAYS ask the CA to jumpseat....as someone else said, if you checked in at the gate for the JS, you need to pop up front, regardless of a seat assignment. If you listed yourself on the non-rev list, head on back. Even those guys check in sometimes...and I used to as well. Nice to know sometimes if there is a qualified crew member in back in the unlikely event......
In regards to the original post, I wouldn't take offense at all. I've had some flights where the JSer and I talked the whole way without a peep from the CA, others where I took the radios so that CA & JSer could chat. Just depends...no big deal.
Also....I agree JetBlue is one of the best jumpseating experiences I've had. Thanks guys & gals!
03-11-2008, 06:02 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: CRJ FO no more
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob
At DAL, jumpseaters show up on our AWABS and even if you get a seat in the back you are required to check in with the captain. Jumpseating is NOT non-reving. As a NR you can drink, as a jumpseater, even in civilian clothes you cannot drink. The only difference is the OAL FA jumpseaters. Technically they are ID0 nonrevs, not jumpseaters and can only sit in a cabin seat, not an actual jumpseat.
Non reving is a benefit, jumpseating is a priviledge. In the last two weeks, had two captains threaten to throw off at least 5 jumpseaters, including one Comair guy for just taking a seat in the back. They made the agents go get them and bring them up. Was it a dick move? Some would say yes, some no. Remember, regardless of the agent handed you a seat card, you still are riding at the captains discretion and you need his/her permission.
Non reving is a benefit, jumpseating is a priviledge. In the last two weeks, had two captains threaten to throw off at least 5 jumpseaters, including one Comair guy for just taking a seat in the back. They made the agents go get them and bring them up. Was it a dick move? Some would say yes, some no. Remember, regardless of the agent handed you a seat card, you still are riding at the captains discretion and you need his/her permission.
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