PDT News and Rumors
01-14-2011 | 07:18 PM
#2291
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 607
Likes: 0
From: Upright
I agree with all of that post for certain. I actually feel we more or less have the same opinion albeit mine expressed more harshly.
I believe so.
Overall, it seems like the two unnamed aforementioned individuals seem to think they are running, or wish they were running a military jet training squadron vs a TP regional training program. I've often felt that the primary problem is that it's been the total failure of both of them to achieve any sort of distinguished success in their careers and that they take it out on the whole pilot group. Both of them should have been senior training guys with 15 years command experience on a heavy jet by now. One must wonder, was it perhaps their attitude that kept them here?
I'll give you one, and he's got an inflated sense of self that makes everyone else's life miserable. He's also well known outside of PDT for his ego.
I mean c'mon , keeping the AQP manual Top Secret is just plain immature and absurd. If it's a fair policy, and it's a fair program, and it's CBA complaint, then what do they have to hide?
Wasn't that way when I was there, but I know things have changes for the worse between the union and the company, apparently to include the training dept. Things were very transparent. We had monthly meetings and a good level of involvement from both sides. Things were starting to go south when I left.
My examples of favoritism I can't really get into without naming names. But I can say that in my domicile we have C/A's that have an excellent relationship with training, never failed a checkride that have no business being in command of a transport category aircraft or even a Cessna for that matter. Yet year after year they pass recurrent. There's more to that then meets the eye, but I understand the rub. Then we have guys I fly with that teach me more in one leg then I've learned in totality from my TD experiences that just because of one bad sim ride and disagreement with an instructor are constantly special tracked or at the extreme: forced to downgrade. All the forced downgrades that I'm aware of except for one or two needed it. This is a bit of an exaggerated euphemism but the TD wants pilots that can academically fly the perfect sim. It's not much of an exaggeration, but it holds true everywhere. They have no use for pilots that can actually fly airplanes. I'm not sure I agree with that. Forced downgrade is actually very uncommon in the industry at large, yet at PDT, it's not. What does that say: We have a training dept that simply has a higher level of standard then the rest of the industry? Or does it say the standard our training department has is too high? I think it says the training dept doesn't tolerate any BS. I'm furloughed from a company who outsources training to a third party, and everyone passes every time. There may be retraining at times, but if the overall pass rate isn't 100% I'd be surprised. The result is many pilots sitting in the left seat who should be in the right. I've watched guys so far behind the airplane I was checking into the hotel while they were still running the before start checklist. They're the exception to the rule at that company, but at PDT you may fly with 2 or 3 that are like that but still get it together in the sim. They're the ones that fall through the cracks. The cracks are pretty narrow at PDT.
I also have firsthand knowledge that you can tell one of the two you're talking about that he's full of it in the sim and still pass. I always found his rides to plenty fair. He also might be the only guy in management that will go down in flames for you if you are being treated unjustly by the company. I watched him argue with the old CP and threaten to resign over a pilot being wronged by him. (I think we're talking about the same guy)
I never left. I've just been in a real bad mood for the last year, no, make the last Four and haven't felt like posting. I'm really not going to do so that often, just the PDT hiring thing made me chime in. I wanted to get the word out to any potential new hire to steer clear of this place.
I believe so.
Overall, it seems like the two unnamed aforementioned individuals seem to think they are running, or wish they were running a military jet training squadron vs a TP regional training program. I've often felt that the primary problem is that it's been the total failure of both of them to achieve any sort of distinguished success in their careers and that they take it out on the whole pilot group. Both of them should have been senior training guys with 15 years command experience on a heavy jet by now. One must wonder, was it perhaps their attitude that kept them here?
I'll give you one, and he's got an inflated sense of self that makes everyone else's life miserable. He's also well known outside of PDT for his ego.
I mean c'mon , keeping the AQP manual Top Secret is just plain immature and absurd. If it's a fair policy, and it's a fair program, and it's CBA complaint, then what do they have to hide?
Wasn't that way when I was there, but I know things have changes for the worse between the union and the company, apparently to include the training dept. Things were very transparent. We had monthly meetings and a good level of involvement from both sides. Things were starting to go south when I left.
My examples of favoritism I can't really get into without naming names. But I can say that in my domicile we have C/A's that have an excellent relationship with training, never failed a checkride that have no business being in command of a transport category aircraft or even a Cessna for that matter. Yet year after year they pass recurrent. There's more to that then meets the eye, but I understand the rub. Then we have guys I fly with that teach me more in one leg then I've learned in totality from my TD experiences that just because of one bad sim ride and disagreement with an instructor are constantly special tracked or at the extreme: forced to downgrade. All the forced downgrades that I'm aware of except for one or two needed it. This is a bit of an exaggerated euphemism but the TD wants pilots that can academically fly the perfect sim. It's not much of an exaggeration, but it holds true everywhere. They have no use for pilots that can actually fly airplanes. I'm not sure I agree with that. Forced downgrade is actually very uncommon in the industry at large, yet at PDT, it's not. What does that say: We have a training dept that simply has a higher level of standard then the rest of the industry? Or does it say the standard our training department has is too high? I think it says the training dept doesn't tolerate any BS. I'm furloughed from a company who outsources training to a third party, and everyone passes every time. There may be retraining at times, but if the overall pass rate isn't 100% I'd be surprised. The result is many pilots sitting in the left seat who should be in the right. I've watched guys so far behind the airplane I was checking into the hotel while they were still running the before start checklist. They're the exception to the rule at that company, but at PDT you may fly with 2 or 3 that are like that but still get it together in the sim. They're the ones that fall through the cracks. The cracks are pretty narrow at PDT.
I also have firsthand knowledge that you can tell one of the two you're talking about that he's full of it in the sim and still pass. I always found his rides to plenty fair. He also might be the only guy in management that will go down in flames for you if you are being treated unjustly by the company. I watched him argue with the old CP and threaten to resign over a pilot being wronged by him. (I think we're talking about the same guy)
I never left. I've just been in a real bad mood for the last year, no, make the last Four and haven't felt like posting. I'm really not going to do so that often, just the PDT hiring thing made me chime in. I wanted to get the word out to any potential new hire to steer clear of this place.
As far as going to PDT or not, don't let the training dept scare you away from the place. Everything else DashGirl mentioned should be enough!
01-15-2011 | 04:41 AM
#2292
Guest
Posts: n/a
01-15-2011 | 07:19 AM
#2293
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 337
Likes: 0
To anyone interviewing I highly recommend that you do not consider employment at PDT.
* Reserve QOL is horrid. You'll either fly your ass off and be so fatigued you'll be a walking ASAP report. Or you'll spend your life bored off your butt leashed to a cell phone that never rings.
* With load factors increasing due to economic recovery, empty seats available from a west coast to east coast for a junior commuter will be few and far between and you have no contract commuter protection if you jumpseat offline. East to west US Airways commuters have it pretty bad. There are very few of them because it is really challenging. If you don't plan on moving out East do not let anyone tell you that a East to West commute is even remotely tolerable. I guarantee you will be nothing short of miserable within 8 weeks. You get three missed commutes per year no jeopardy as long as you've properly crossed 25,000 t's and dotted 25,000 i's - yeah, its THAT absurd! After that you get two missed trips per year then termination.
* We are in contract negotiations and it is NOT going well. Strike preparedness committee is ramping up operations. The company is continuously violating our contract in several areas. Payroll errors are out of control. Company is telling our Union they want a Current Book contract or less. For those of you that do not know what that means it translates to the company wanting to sign a 5 to 10 year extension with concessions for our current contract. The contract is far from the worst in the industry but it is fraught with problems and is concessionary. The sections on reserve rules and training especially are highly sub-standard.
* PDT has AQP for our training program. Though AQP is well liked at other companies it is extremely difficult to deal with at PDT. Training here is extremely hard..period..Especially for new hires. The Training Dept. Mgt is very "old school". If you have even a sliver of slacker in you, if you don't have the AJ squared away super jar head POH and FOM robot cyborg mentality you will likely NOT pass initial, and you need to have extremely solid IFR skills already, they will not train you. I am a slacker by nature. I had to make significant adjustments to my mentality to get through initial. It was extremely challenging. Last few new-hire classes before they furloughed had a better than 40% wash out rate. Essentially we do not have a training department. We have an Evaluation department. Everything is basically self study. Your sim sessions will include little actual instruction. It will be endless repeats of..."okay you screwed that up, let's do it again till you get it right, and BTW, if we don't get through everything in the time allotted you fail." We actually have some great instructors. But they are rarely allowed to actually instruct. The PDT AQP program is structured this way intentionally. Trng dept managers believe in instruction via intimidation. They feel if you are not a natural and perfect Dash 8 pilot you don't belong at Piedmont. I have never failed any training event at Piedmont and I still hate going to training. I'd rather be whipped with a bamboo stick then step foot in the training center bldg ever again! Most pilots here feel exactly the same way...Don't misunderstand me, they are not mean or rude. In fact, they are exceptionally professional in their demeanor and even pleasant at times. But they demand a level of consistent performance from you that would even intimidate an Air Force Eagle driver or Navy Super Hornet jock!. It's a very unreasonable environment. Especially for a low-time new-hire.
* Our crew base structure is not secure. LGA will likely be gone within the next 12 to 15 months. In lieu of the CAL/UAL merger and subsequent acquisition of EWR slots for Southwest Airlines the slot-swap transaction with Delta has been re-submitted and will probably go through the third time around. That means a total shut down of Express ops at LGA and a loss of 12 to 15 lines of flying for PDT. Mgt, claims the provisions of the slot-swap will allow for reallocation of those a/c and a minimal loss of flying overall. However, they have never provided one shred of evidence to that effect to our union. LGA has ceased RON aircraft for PDT. We also lose I believe 6 routes to Mesaba out of LGA effective March 1st with no increase in flying to compensate.
Now, after dealing with all of that here comes the real good news. You have to put up with all that nonsense to have the privilege ( you better be willing to at least make them think you feel privileged) to fly 25 year old turboprops that are literally falling apart that run an average of two MEL's per aircraft on any given day. Do not listen to anything any recruiter tells you. There is currently no, and I emphasize NO, fleet replacement plan even being considered for PDT. We have three aircraft that are due to timeout on their airframes by late 2012 with 7 more hitting max cycles by 2014. Piedmont is currently operating literally the two highest time Dash-8 100's in the world. They set a record every time they fly. We have great mechanics and they do a helluva job keeping the antique fleet (flying avionics museums) going. But fleet reliability is dropping fast. Shortcuts are being taken and the MEL program is being abused by management. Parts are becoming more and more scarce and major mechanical failures, many in-flight, are on the rise.
The future for PDT is grim. The popular theory is that once our sister wholly owned (PSA) has a T/A and signs off on a new contract mainline will merge us. Now if that happened, it would be very good for the PDT pilots in some ways but bad in others. Though job security would be enhanced, PSA currently has, and will likely have an inferior contract.
The second most popular theory, and I think the most likely to happen considering it's the trend with precedent is that mainline will simply whittle down PDT year after year until there are too few Dashes left to continue flight ops. At that point, perhaps 3 to 5 years from now, PDT will cease flight ops and street all flight crews/dispatchers/mechs/schedulers and continue ground handling ops only.
Those two "blogs" are only theories and opinion. Anything could happen. But consider this. Recently I asked a group of three fairly senior pilots in the crew room at LGA how long had it been since there was any good news or growth at PDT.....The response was that it had been about 15 years.
Now, if you really want to put up with all of that, are willing to live in-base, stick it out long enough for the hiring wave and attrition to bump you up to line holder (assuming you ever get there before getting furloughed) then in all honesty, the job isn't that horrible. But movement is nill. Upgrades have slowed and with the impending decrease in flying, upgrades will likely stagnate by year's end with maybe 20 or 30 more this year. New hires won't see any chance of upgrade for a minimum of 5 years unless something drastically positive growthwise occurs. I'm a 4th year F/O, I have no chance at upgrade in 2011 and probably won't be able to hold Captain until the end of 2012.
You would also be wise to consider this: Racking up gobs of SIC time in a turboprop will do little for your career progression in an industry that seems to be trending towards the disuse of turboprops (some are going to counter argue this point so I'll state that as opinion only). In a hiring boom your TP time will get you in after all the jet resumes have been hired. In a time of hiring lull you will be at the bottom of any list to interview. My point is this, although flying at PDT will give you excellent skills and much needed experience, why come here when you can go to a jet regional? This has NOTHING to do with sjs, I could care less what I fly as long as I have a paycheck that amounts to what my skills are worth with a good QOL working for a company that actually dares to see me as a human being rather than a necessary cost liability. I'm talking about career progression here. There just isn't any pilot making top dollar in this industry flying attic fan powered passenger relocation devices. So any of you that want to accuse me of SJS can sit on it!..Think about it!
Additionally, we, we being the line pilots at PDT, would prefer if you did not come here right now. It's nothing personal, but if no one comes to work here crew availability will get worse and worse. Once everyone gets tapped out on Jr. Man's and the reserves are maxed on hours and flights start getting canceled due to crew shortages our pilot group will begin to have some leverage at the negotiating table. Please help us make PDT into a better place to work in the future, assuming we have a future, by going somewhere else for the time being. During times like these being understaffed for us is a good thing...
And no, if you come here no one will treat you crappy or be rude to you other than industry normal average good humored new hire hazing...Just asking you to help us out!
* Reserve QOL is horrid. You'll either fly your ass off and be so fatigued you'll be a walking ASAP report. Or you'll spend your life bored off your butt leashed to a cell phone that never rings.
* With load factors increasing due to economic recovery, empty seats available from a west coast to east coast for a junior commuter will be few and far between and you have no contract commuter protection if you jumpseat offline. East to west US Airways commuters have it pretty bad. There are very few of them because it is really challenging. If you don't plan on moving out East do not let anyone tell you that a East to West commute is even remotely tolerable. I guarantee you will be nothing short of miserable within 8 weeks. You get three missed commutes per year no jeopardy as long as you've properly crossed 25,000 t's and dotted 25,000 i's - yeah, its THAT absurd! After that you get two missed trips per year then termination.
* We are in contract negotiations and it is NOT going well. Strike preparedness committee is ramping up operations. The company is continuously violating our contract in several areas. Payroll errors are out of control. Company is telling our Union they want a Current Book contract or less. For those of you that do not know what that means it translates to the company wanting to sign a 5 to 10 year extension with concessions for our current contract. The contract is far from the worst in the industry but it is fraught with problems and is concessionary. The sections on reserve rules and training especially are highly sub-standard.
* PDT has AQP for our training program. Though AQP is well liked at other companies it is extremely difficult to deal with at PDT. Training here is extremely hard..period..Especially for new hires. The Training Dept. Mgt is very "old school". If you have even a sliver of slacker in you, if you don't have the AJ squared away super jar head POH and FOM robot cyborg mentality you will likely NOT pass initial, and you need to have extremely solid IFR skills already, they will not train you. I am a slacker by nature. I had to make significant adjustments to my mentality to get through initial. It was extremely challenging. Last few new-hire classes before they furloughed had a better than 40% wash out rate. Essentially we do not have a training department. We have an Evaluation department. Everything is basically self study. Your sim sessions will include little actual instruction. It will be endless repeats of..."okay you screwed that up, let's do it again till you get it right, and BTW, if we don't get through everything in the time allotted you fail." We actually have some great instructors. But they are rarely allowed to actually instruct. The PDT AQP program is structured this way intentionally. Trng dept managers believe in instruction via intimidation. They feel if you are not a natural and perfect Dash 8 pilot you don't belong at Piedmont. I have never failed any training event at Piedmont and I still hate going to training. I'd rather be whipped with a bamboo stick then step foot in the training center bldg ever again! Most pilots here feel exactly the same way...Don't misunderstand me, they are not mean or rude. In fact, they are exceptionally professional in their demeanor and even pleasant at times. But they demand a level of consistent performance from you that would even intimidate an Air Force Eagle driver or Navy Super Hornet jock!. It's a very unreasonable environment. Especially for a low-time new-hire.
* Our crew base structure is not secure. LGA will likely be gone within the next 12 to 15 months. In lieu of the CAL/UAL merger and subsequent acquisition of EWR slots for Southwest Airlines the slot-swap transaction with Delta has been re-submitted and will probably go through the third time around. That means a total shut down of Express ops at LGA and a loss of 12 to 15 lines of flying for PDT. Mgt, claims the provisions of the slot-swap will allow for reallocation of those a/c and a minimal loss of flying overall. However, they have never provided one shred of evidence to that effect to our union. LGA has ceased RON aircraft for PDT. We also lose I believe 6 routes to Mesaba out of LGA effective March 1st with no increase in flying to compensate.
Now, after dealing with all of that here comes the real good news. You have to put up with all that nonsense to have the privilege ( you better be willing to at least make them think you feel privileged) to fly 25 year old turboprops that are literally falling apart that run an average of two MEL's per aircraft on any given day. Do not listen to anything any recruiter tells you. There is currently no, and I emphasize NO, fleet replacement plan even being considered for PDT. We have three aircraft that are due to timeout on their airframes by late 2012 with 7 more hitting max cycles by 2014. Piedmont is currently operating literally the two highest time Dash-8 100's in the world. They set a record every time they fly. We have great mechanics and they do a helluva job keeping the antique fleet (flying avionics museums) going. But fleet reliability is dropping fast. Shortcuts are being taken and the MEL program is being abused by management. Parts are becoming more and more scarce and major mechanical failures, many in-flight, are on the rise.
The future for PDT is grim. The popular theory is that once our sister wholly owned (PSA) has a T/A and signs off on a new contract mainline will merge us. Now if that happened, it would be very good for the PDT pilots in some ways but bad in others. Though job security would be enhanced, PSA currently has, and will likely have an inferior contract.
The second most popular theory, and I think the most likely to happen considering it's the trend with precedent is that mainline will simply whittle down PDT year after year until there are too few Dashes left to continue flight ops. At that point, perhaps 3 to 5 years from now, PDT will cease flight ops and street all flight crews/dispatchers/mechs/schedulers and continue ground handling ops only.
Those two "blogs" are only theories and opinion. Anything could happen. But consider this. Recently I asked a group of three fairly senior pilots in the crew room at LGA how long had it been since there was any good news or growth at PDT.....The response was that it had been about 15 years.
Now, if you really want to put up with all of that, are willing to live in-base, stick it out long enough for the hiring wave and attrition to bump you up to line holder (assuming you ever get there before getting furloughed) then in all honesty, the job isn't that horrible. But movement is nill. Upgrades have slowed and with the impending decrease in flying, upgrades will likely stagnate by year's end with maybe 20 or 30 more this year. New hires won't see any chance of upgrade for a minimum of 5 years unless something drastically positive growthwise occurs. I'm a 4th year F/O, I have no chance at upgrade in 2011 and probably won't be able to hold Captain until the end of 2012.
You would also be wise to consider this: Racking up gobs of SIC time in a turboprop will do little for your career progression in an industry that seems to be trending towards the disuse of turboprops (some are going to counter argue this point so I'll state that as opinion only). In a hiring boom your TP time will get you in after all the jet resumes have been hired. In a time of hiring lull you will be at the bottom of any list to interview. My point is this, although flying at PDT will give you excellent skills and much needed experience, why come here when you can go to a jet regional? This has NOTHING to do with sjs, I could care less what I fly as long as I have a paycheck that amounts to what my skills are worth with a good QOL working for a company that actually dares to see me as a human being rather than a necessary cost liability. I'm talking about career progression here. There just isn't any pilot making top dollar in this industry flying attic fan powered passenger relocation devices. So any of you that want to accuse me of SJS can sit on it!..Think about it!
Additionally, we, we being the line pilots at PDT, would prefer if you did not come here right now. It's nothing personal, but if no one comes to work here crew availability will get worse and worse. Once everyone gets tapped out on Jr. Man's and the reserves are maxed on hours and flights start getting canceled due to crew shortages our pilot group will begin to have some leverage at the negotiating table. Please help us make PDT into a better place to work in the future, assuming we have a future, by going somewhere else for the time being. During times like these being understaffed for us is a good thing...
And no, if you come here no one will treat you crappy or be rude to you other than industry normal average good humored new hire hazing...Just asking you to help us out!
Women In Aviation
01-15-2011 | 07:41 AM
#2294
Guest
Posts: n/a
01-15-2011 | 12:49 PM
#2295
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 637
Likes: 0
From: N/A
Does anyone have any idea of how many are taking the early retirement?
Also, since I've been out I've heard they have changed hotels in CLT for training. Can anyone comment on the new one. I kinda liked having the kitchenette in the old motel, and the thrill of possibly being stabbed or mugged was great too.
Also, since I've been out I've heard they have changed hotels in CLT for training. Can anyone comment on the new one. I kinda liked having the kitchenette in the old motel, and the thrill of possibly being stabbed or mugged was great too.
01-15-2011 | 12:54 PM
#2296
Guest
Posts: n/a
Does anyone have any idea of how many are taking the early retirement?
Also, since I've been out I've heard they have changed hotels in CLT for training. Can anyone comment on the new one. I kinda liked having the kitchenette in the old motel, and the thrill of possibly being stabbed or mugged was great too.
Also, since I've been out I've heard they have changed hotels in CLT for training. Can anyone comment on the new one. I kinda liked having the kitchenette in the old motel, and the thrill of possibly being stabbed or mugged was great too.
01-15-2011 | 01:04 PM
#2297
Don't need that HUD!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 321
Likes: 2
From: B787 FO
As other people have mentioned in the past, maybe the problem isn't other people or the way Piedmont conducts business. Some things will just always be the way they are because that is the way they have always been.
It has been suggested to you in the past that maybe the solution is for you to leave Piedmont. Then you make excuses that you can't leave because you can't get a better job with only TP time, or you don't have enough PIC time, or why should you have to start over at the bottom of the list at another crappy regional.
Then you disappear from the forums for a while. When you come back, it's usually to complain about the way things are at Piedmont again. Like somehow you expected things to change?
01-15-2011 | 01:14 PM
#2298
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 771
Likes: 0
From: bar stool
No official numbers yet, but grumblings on the line suggest very few will take it. And yes there is a new hotel for trng. It's a Quality Inn and only 1 step better then the former dump we were in and in a worse part of town. But, it does have breakfast and indoor room access.
It's not 5 stars, but no different from places we overnight in. And definently better then before. At least there are more options for food then a gas station or "the locker room".
01-15-2011 | 01:33 PM
#2299
Guest
Posts: n/a
My opinion was based on the surly characters and obvious gang bangers that seem to prowl the shopping area parking lots around Subway and Chilis. I never saw that kind of activity in the old neighborhood, not saying it wasn't there, just never saw it.. I think your crazy to say the Quality is as good as where we stay on the line..How that place compares to Homewood, Hilton Garden, Embassy Suites, Hamptons or Fairfields is beyond me...Some of the the Holiday Inns, yeah maybe, but the other places not even close. Though your right on the money regarding food choices..
01-15-2011 | 01:51 PM
#2300
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 771
Likes: 0
From: bar stool
My opinion was based on the surly characters and obvious gang bangers that seem to prowl the shopping area parking lots around Subway and Chilis. I never saw that kind of activity in the old neighborhood, not saying it wasn't there, just never saw it.. I think your crazy to say the Quality is as good as where we stay on the line..How that place compares to Homewood, Hilton Garden, Embassy Suites, Hamptons or Fairfields is beyond me...Some of the the Holiday Inns, yeah maybe, but the other places not even close. Though your right on the money regarding food choices..
It's not better then Hiltons, or the suites, but for me it's just like 80% of the overnight hotels we get. Maybe I get the crap overnights then, and miss the nice hiltons.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
